Let me revisit our Cigar Trading agreement that we agreed to. In December 2003, you approached me with wanting to try some Cuban Cigars and asked to buy them from me. I informed you that I do not sell cigars, I only trade them. You at the same time requested information about how you could obtain them yourself. I provided you with the information you requested. You then repeatedly requested that you wanted to try some before you acquired a box and asked me to trade a few with you. I decided to trade a couple of Habanos Cigars with you after you agreed to what the trade would consist of. That being a couple of cigars in return for what I sent you. The trade consisted of a Montecristo #2 and a Partagas Serie D # 4, which I sent to you for One Habanos Cigar from your order and One Habanos (which was a free cigar therefore no cost to you) in return. You agreed to the terms and told me at the time of the trade that you were going to be ordering within the next two weeks. That would have put your return trade back to me no later than the end of January 2004.
On January 10, 2004 you posted a thread in Cigar Weekly that you were requesting people to join you in a Box Split on a Box of PSD4’s. It appeared to me, even though you were about a week late in your request for a Box Split that you were going through your end of the trade. From your post, you quoted pricing that was in error, and I questioned you about it. You informed me that others had informed you that you could acquire the PSD4’s at a lower price and were going to order from them. Not until I asked you did you ever mention how you were going to complete your end of the trade that you committed to. Once I requested this, you informed me, that the trade was going to be changed. You offered to me that you would complete your end of the trade with an additional PSD4. Since you had changed the trade, I had no alternative but to accept your WORD that you would complete the trade with the new Habanos Cigars.
I waited, and waited some more in hopes that you were a Man of your word and would complete your end of the trade. After a month and a half, I emailed you and asked for an update. You informed me that the Box Split had not gone through. You gave me the excuse that your girlfriend had left, that your father had quite paying for your school and that you had to get another job. I asked you when you were going to take care of your end of the trade that you had agreed to in December. I told you that I expected you to hold up your end of the trade as you had agreed to. You replied that you would pay for the cigars that I had sent you in December. This was not acceptable. Reference my initial comment, I do not sell cigars. I still expect you to complete your end of the trade that you committed to in December 2003.
I told you to keep me informed about what was happening. As of right now, I have still not received one word from you about how you want to complete your end of the trade you committed to. The only time that I have heard anything from you is when I emailed you and asked you for information. I Stand Up Trader keeps people informed about what is going on in a trade.
Since I had absolutely no word from you about when or how you were going to complete your end of the trade, I had no other recourse but to inform every responsible trader that your actions were that of an Untrustworthy trader. No one should in good conscious trade with you because you could not be trusted to hold up your end of a trade. I have informed Cigar Aficionado, Cigar Weekly, Cigar Family and CigarWise about your actions. You admit that you have not kept your end of the trade and it is now almost three months since you committed to the trade. Your actions are not those of a Stand Up Trader.
I have called you a Scumbag and a Bad Trader because your actions toward me are typical of actions of a Bad Trader and a Scumbag.
The next step Mr. Sam Greene is up to you. I still hold you accountable for your commitment to me in the trade that was done in December 2003. How you decide your next course of action is going to be interesting. You have some serious explaining to do. Every Stand Up Trader on every Cigar Bulletin knows your name and will never trade with you again. I hope that you are adult enough to do the right thing.
Some people just don't seem to get it. It's not the cost of the cigars, it's the person's word and reputation that is what's on the line. Especially when someone (you) go out of your way to introduce someone else (Sam) to some high quality cigars AND a source and then they don't hold their end of the bargain or even send word.
Grrrrr..... I'm getting mad just thinking about it. Sam is on the list until you say otherwise.
I won two PIFs from John-Paul Hersberg one here at CA and one at CW at the same time. What he sent me was the five cigars (the cheapest from his inventory) listed below and the Opus DVD for the CW Fuente dvd And Cigar PIF:
1 Cigars Internaltional Curojo Toro 1 Roly #2 1 Maxims De Paris 1 Gran Habano Connecticut Gran Robusto No. 1 1 Gran Habano Corojo Gran Robusto No. 5
We were going to trade so he sent me his cigar inventory:
1 Arriba (robusto) 2 Ashton VSG's 2 Ashton cedar wrapped churchill sized sticks 2-A.Fuente 858 Rodados 1-A.Fuente 858 Sungrown 6x47 2 A.Fuente Reserva Xtra Viejo's 3 camacho diplomas( 2 fatties & 1 robusto) 3 camacho SLR (2 torps & 1 Church) 2 CAO's (1 gold long one and 1 MX-2 long one) 1 Cigars International 2 Cuesta-Rey Centro-Fino Sungrowns ( 1-#60 and 1-#9 torpedo both longer than a robusto size) 3 Davidoffs (2 Torp Special-T's and 1 Church) 1 Diamond Crown Maximus Toro #4 2 Don Thomas (special edicion) (1 torp and 1 fattie robust 5 1/2 x 54) 2 El-Rico Habanos 6 Fonseca (3 sungrown cedar wrapped, 1@10/10 maduro 4 Gran Habanos (2 corojo#5's & 2 Habano#3's) (New priemiums just on the mrkt very tasty) 1 LFD (ligero) 1 Maxim de paris (made by Davidoff) 1 Martinez y Santiago Gold (robusto) 2 montagues 2 morro-castle (robusto's) 16-Oliva Grand Maduros (8-robusto box pressed torpedos, 8-box pressed torpedo lonsdale size) 2 Padron 1964's (Exclusivo Maduros) Robustos 5 ½ x 50 1 Padron 1926 (Same size as the exclusivos) Robusto 5 ½ x 50 1 Partagas Black 1 Por larranaga (long torp) 5 Punch (1-Chateu-L, 2-Gran puros, 2 maduro Churchill size) 1 Romeo & Julieta (Long black band w/125 on it(I think its a special one) 1 Sancho Panza Dbl Maduro 2 vegas de fonseca conneticut wrappers) 1 Te-Amo (Vintage "99 Torpedo) 3 willeys (local here in Phx that rolled for 20+ yrs in cuba) (2 church's & 1 barber stripe)
I personally know he received cigars from the CW Fuente dvd And Cigar PIF than he sent because I talked to the BOTL who set the PIF to John-Paul Hersberg. John-Paul Hersberg should be completely avoided as he receives quality cigars and sends out the worst DOG ROCKETS from his collection
Here's the real problem. You expect high end cigars, but send others dog rockets, so when you recieve dog rockets, you whine. Grow up and stop trading so much, buy what you like and smoke what you like and stop trying to get everyone else to send you their best cigars.
Gamelover you are Really a piece of work. You send cr@p to people then complain when you get cr@pped on. Glad to see you have Done it again. Over at another board you did this same thing when a person called you out for being a low life Pif lurker.....You cried like a babby, made posts all over the place, Got the mods to breast feed you....THEN you proved the decenter right. You had the NERVE to senD out Shiat When you were recieveing top shell and cubans....GO Fluck yourself
If yesterday was the beginning of the end...What excuse will you use tomorrow?
Posts: 381 | Location: South of the Manson-Nixon line | Registered: June 13, 2003
Trevor VSG and wildrat, I have never traded with either of you before here or on any other boards. So how can you attack my character? You don't know me! What boards are you talking about? I belong and post regularly here at CigarWeekly, CigarPass, Torano Forum. So which forum are you talking about? I have never sent out a Dog Rocket nor do I expect to receive only high end cigars, so are you both psychic or psycotic? I think you must have me confused with someone else???
[This message was edited by David Savona on May 25, 2004 at 12:05 PM.]
Funny how you didn't mention the board you made such a stink on that has the same initials as CigarWeekly. You appeared there at CW (i didn't say wise board name David). Made a fuss when you were called out, then sent a mod a load of dogrockets in a pif, and now for some reason are not there anymore (or did you just change your nic)
If yesterday was the beginning of the end...What excuse will you use tomorrow?
Posts: 381 | Location: South of the Manson-Nixon line | Registered: June 13, 2003
quote:Originally posted by gamelover2004: Trevor VSG and wildrat, I have never traded with either of you before
No you have traded with our friends, douched them, so we know better than to trade with you. This is what happens when you don't send like you recieve.
If yesterday was the beginning of the end...What excuse will you use tomorrow?
Posts: 381 | Location: South of the Manson-Nixon line | Registered: June 13, 2003
This was edit'd as mod's deleted his mad Cap's and bold font'd rantings and i'll just leave this
Game there is a post in moderator's Que waiting to be released....could it be from the person over at another board that you sent DOGROCKETS to....I think so....
Posts: 381 | Location: South of the Manson-Nixon line | Registered: June 13, 2003
We at Cigar Aficionado have no control over who sends what in box passes, so I'd like to caution everyone who takes part in trading to be wary. Everyone isn't necessarily as generous as you are. Most of the cigar smokers I know are fine people who go out of their way to share their smokes with others. That said, there are those out there who are just trying to get something for free. So be wary.
Gamelover, I have no idea if the accusations about you are true or not, but that barrage of foul language here is unacceptable. I've removed your access rights to Cigar Aficionado Online. Do not return.
Posts: 2243 | Location: New York, NY | Registered: April 23, 2002
It seams that Mr Sam Greene has made a come back to the boards and thinks that he can skate in and breeze away like nothing ever happened. Let me refresh everyone memory.
Tampa1257 Member posted March 18, 2004 06:12 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Sam Greene,
Let me revisit our Cigar Trading agreement that we agreed to. In December 2003, you approached me with wanting to try some Cuban Cigars and asked to buy them from me. I informed you that I do not sell cigars, I only trade them. You at the same time requested information about how you could obtain them yourself. I provided you with the information you requested. You then repeatedly requested that you wanted to try some before you acquired a box and asked me to trade a few with you. I decided to trade a couple of Habanos Cigars with you after you agreed to what the trade would consist of. That being a couple of cigars in return for what I sent you. The trade consisted of a Montecristo #2 and a Partagas Serie D # 4, which I sent to you for One Habanos Cigar from your order and One Habanos (which was a free cigar therefore no cost to you) in return. You agreed to the terms and told me at the time of the trade that you were going to be ordering within the next two weeks. That would have put your return trade back to me no later than the end of January 2004.
On January 10, 2004 you posted a thread in Cigar Weekly that you were requesting people to join you in a Box Split on a Box of PSD4’s. It appeared to me, even though you were about a week late in your request for a Box Split that you were going through your end of the trade. From your post, you quoted pricing that was in error, and I questioned you about it. You informed me that others had informed you that you could acquire the PSD4’s at a lower price and were going to order from them. Not until I asked you did you ever mention how you were going to complete your end of the trade that you committed to. Once I requested this, you informed me, that the trade was going to be changed. You offered to me that you would complete your end of the trade with an additional PSD4. Since you had changed the trade, I had no alternative but to accept your WORD that you would complete the trade with the new Habanos Cigars.
I waited, and waited some more in hopes that you were a Man of your word and would complete your end of the trade. After a month and a half, I emailed you and asked for an update. You informed me that the Box Split had not gone through. You gave me the excuse that your girlfriend had left, that your father had quite paying for your school and that you had to get another job. I asked you when you were going to take care of your end of the trade that you had agreed to in December. I told you that I expected you to hold up your end of the trade as you had agreed to. You replied that you would pay for the cigars that I had sent you in December. This was not acceptable. Reference my initial comment, I do not sell cigars. I still expect you to complete your end of the trade that you committed to in December 2003.
I told you to keep me informed about what was happening. As of right now, I have still not received one word from you about how you want to complete your end of the trade you committed to. The only time that I have heard anything from you is when I emailed you and asked you for information. I Stand Up Trader keeps people informed about what is going on in a trade.
Since I had absolutely no word from you about when or how you were going to complete your end of the trade, I had no other recourse but to inform every responsible trader that your actions were that of an Untrustworthy trader. No one should in good conscious trade with you because you could not be trusted to hold up your end of a trade. I have informed Cigar Aficionado, Cigar Weekly, Cigar Family and CigarWise about your actions. You admit that you have not kept your end of the trade and it is now almost three months since you committed to the trade. Your actions are not those of a Stand Up Trader.
I have called you a Scumbag and a Bad Trader because your actions toward me are typical of actions of a Bad Trader and a Scumbag.
The next step Mr. Sam Greene is up to you. I still hold you accountable for your commitment to me in the trade that was done in December 2003. How you decide your next course of action is going to be interesting. You have some serious explaining to do. Every Stand Up Trader on every Cigar Bulletin knows your name and will never trade with you again. I hope that you are adult enough to do the right thing.
Sincerely,
Chuck/TampaPSD4 #1257
Then you posted:
sgreene Private First Class
Gender: Male Location: Vermilio,Ohio Registered: Feb 2004 Status: Offline Posts: 11
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted Thursday, March 18, 2004 @ 06:45 PM
Ok, I agree I should have taken care of it months ago. IF chuck would please respond and tell me what he wants I will get the sticks out ASAP!
Then you posted:
sgreene Private First Class
Gender: Male Location: Vermilio,Ohio Registered: Feb 2004 Status: Offline Posts: 11
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted Thursday, March 18, 2004 @ 10:42 PM
I would like to applogize to all the people whose time I have wasted in having them read this. This mess is all my fault. Chuck is a stand up guy and had the kindest intentions. You probally wont see me around here anymore, but have my word that chuck will be repayed for his patience and his kindness. Is there anything I can do to rebuild my repuation. I am willing to send first in trade or anything of the sort. Please let me know. SG
Then I posted a reply:
TampaPSD4 Lieutenant Colonel
Gender: Male Location: Tampa Bay, Fl Registered: Feb 2004 Status: Online Posts: 1921
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted Thursday, March 18, 2004 @ 11:27 PM
Sam Greene, I recieved your email and understand that your current situation prevents you from completing the trade as was agreed to in December. This trading situation needs to end. I will take the following as completion of your end of the trade. I rarely smoke NC's and really have no interest in them. Therefore, let me attribute a value of $20.00 for the cigars and the postage of sending them priority to you with delivery confirmation of $4.30. I will accept a money order for that as your completion of the trade.
Tampa
Sam Greene It is now July 3, 2004. I have still not received any form of reply, payment, or cigars from you to complete the trade you requested in December of 2003. This is no misunderstanding, this is YOUR FAULT and UNWILLINGNESS TO BE A STAND-UP TRADER! YOU ARE A SCUMBAG, LIAR AND A CHEAT!
The fact that you are leaving out Chuck, is that I explained to you that I have no money whatsoever. I am a student with no real job. I offered to send you cigars out of my humidor that over shadowed the value of those sent to me. I am still willing to do so. Let me know
"A cigar ought not to be smoked solely with the mouth, but with the hand, the eyes, and with the spirit."
-Zino Davidoff
Posts: 137 | Location: Vermilion,Ohio | Registered: December 22, 2003
How on earth do you think you can trade cigars and mail them to anyone without Money???? How do you have they ability to buy Cigars to have to trade without money????
Son, that is a crock of crap!!!
How do you explain that you have internet access???
What are you going to do if someone was stupid enough to trade cigars with you????
Were you going to Rip Them off too????
As Per Your Agreement you were to send me a Money Order for $24.30, wow, that's a lot of money!!!! LMMFAO
It is the Principle boy, you have a lot to learn!
You have money to buy cigars to smoke and trade and can't come up with less than $25 to make good on a deal that has been hanging since December????
Give me a friggin Coffee Break you low live POS, you are a Scumbag of the 1st order.
I guess that it wasn't spelled out enough for you way back in March when you agreed to send me the $24.30 in a Money Order to act as completion of your side of the Habanos Cigar Trade. I got home and found that you still had my email address and I'll copy it here so that everyone has the same info that I have. -------------------------------------------------- Dated today July 3, 2004 Sent at 1.57pm
Chuck,
I do not understand the stink that is being made. I still have yet to order my first box of cubans due to financial issues(college). I told you that WHEN I ordered my first box I would make good with my trade. Since I have yet to order it, that is impossible. However, I do have an Opus X and a Cuban Partagas that a freind brought me from Canada that I could send you as restoration. Let me know.
Sam -------------------------------------------------- Well Sam,
Let me revisit the first agreement in December 2003 that you made. That one started with that you were going to be ordering a Box of Cubans within the next two weeks, and that with all the shipping time frames it would take until the end of January 2004 to complete your end of the trade. You continued to request that I send you the Montecristo #2 and a Partagas Serie D #4 and that you would send your end of the trade as soon as you got your first Box of Cubans.
I will say that you are correct in the issue that you said that you would send your end when the first box came in. The problem is that you ALSO said that you were going to be ordering in January 2004. I requested numerious times to be kept informed about what was going on. The last communication I received from you was in March stating that you had the money and would be sending the $24.30 Money Order on Friday of that week.
That week has now been over 3 months. No communication from you letting me know anything about your efforts to complete your end of the trade.
You state that you're a College Student and now no longer have a job and you have no money. Let me ask you a couple of questions. Have you bought a 6 pack of beer or even soda? Have you had a meal? Have you been to a movie? Have you been out on a date?
You have stated that you are willing to send a couple of Cigars in return for your end of the trade, How are you going to pay for the postage?
Let me remind you that you boasted about going on Vacation to Florida with your family, and also going on Vacation to Europe, I guess that you have the money to be able to do those things, but don't have the money to go down to the Post Office and get a Money Order for $24.30 and a 0.37 US Stamp to mail the money order to me.
I really don't care HOW YOU DO IT, but send the Money Order! Use the allowance your parents give you, go out and mow a couple of lawns, wash a few cars, get a paper route, go to McDonalds and flip hamburgers, but just do it!
Sam, this is not about the cigars, this is purely about a person doing what they say and commit that they are going to do. The Principle of this is that you have let this drag on for over 6 months and you have done absolutely nothing to correct the issue.
The Cigars that I sent you a worth far more than the $20 that I said that I would take for them. The postage of $4.30 is a real cost, as I sent them to you Priority with a Delivery Confirmation. I personally smoke more than those cigars on a daily basis, so I repeat, this is not about wanting the cigars from you in return.
Sam, Let me state this ONE LAST TIME, I will accept a Money Order for $24.30 as payment in full and this trade issue will be done. Perhaps you can ask your Mom or Dad for the money and get the Money Order to me.
Is this going to go on for yet another 6 months?
Sam, It is time to have closure on this issue. Those that might be willing to trade with you in the future can do as they wish. I am ONLY ASKING that you complete the trade that YOU AGREED TO.
Pay the man his money or stop coming to this board. Every time he see's your screen name its going to just piss him off more and more. How in world do you not have any money, be a man and get a job. I worked 30-35 hours a week when I was an undergraduate. $25 is not alot of money.
Posts: 530 | Location: Albany, New York | Registered: January 21, 2004
