Nobody is obligated to post anybody's name in Stand up Guys and Good Traders list, just because they received smokes.
One of the reasons may be they didn't like your selection, or it was nothing special. People not just getting free cigars, they also send cigars to other people. The point is, if I placed anybody’s name over there without really like the quality, I would be lying.
It's not always the case; some people don't even know this threat exist.
Most of us read posts and familiar with other member names. I don't think that somebody's name should be on Good Trader list to participate, but you have to establish yourself somehow on CA forum. That means that if you care about coming back you wouldn't want your name to end up on Scamback and Bad Trader’s list, because if you do, your existence on this forum will be short (word spreads very fast) .
Somebody has to be in charge of approving the names, so it's not easy to create perfect PIF.
My idea is have a list of the people from the beginning and add more as we go, upon request and approval. This is just my 2 cents

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Silverzone,

Hardlined, et el,

Anything further on the PIF ideas??

I'm all about participating in the PIF. Yet my crediability cannot be proven by Post counts and listing in trends. One can only prove crediability by being honorable and backing up his word with actions. I am new by post count but that is only due to not having timely access to a computer to post. I do believe that word spreads fast on a board and there might need to be a bad trader trend for those that are simply not honorable. From most of the post I have read the PIF has been more positive then negative but doing anything online has an element of risk. We can only hope that cigar smokers have some class and honor to play fair.

Mad,

My sentiments exactly. NFG'S have gotta start somewhere. I'm waiting to see what the "criteria" will eventually be. Maybe guys like you n' me will get to play some day, after we've posted an undeterminate amount of times.

(The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue)

The good traders list was just recently "resurected" when I traded with BrownDevil, I don't think that thread was on the first 10 pages.

But I have certainley no complaints, even though I forget what you sent me, and if the thread was active at the moment, I probably would have added you.

How about a buddy system, someone has traded with you in another thread and can "vouch" for you, or

Stick to certain brands so no one gets dog rockets. Some newbs may think that thompsons in house brands are the greatest, while the rest of us rather smoke a log of dog sh*t then one of those.

The more ideas the better I guess, we can single them out later :-)

So Hardlined, sorry it's late, but does that mean you did add me or would have.
I'm pretty much out of suggestions as far as this thread goes. I've thrown my two cents in and others had some good ideas. Now if we can only get it underway.

I'd be happy to start whenever we get the word from the thread originator

OK, I know I haven't been around here in a while and haven't participated in the PIF for a long time but when I first came here a while back PIF is where I started. I did quite a few PIF's and eventually built a rep with some of the long timers here and was able to learn a lot about cigars and the online cigar community from them.

I believe that the original intent of the PIF's was so that people could try cigars they might not normally try and that other poeple enjoy. I was able to find quite a few great smokes from this. It's a risk when you're accepting a PIF from a relativley unknown. However, when someone was burned by someone in a PIF they usually taken care by the rest of the BOTL on here. I know most of these BOTL are long gone from here for various reasons but the concept of the PIF is that most people are usually good people and will live up to thier end of the bargain.

If you're worried about someone sending out dog rockets or send out something not of "equal value" to what you would send to the next person then just don't participate. No one is forcing you to participate in the PIF. I'm sure that some of my PIF's were not always of "equal value". But they were usually quality smokes regardless.

Why mess with something that has worked for so long like the PIF's by all of a sudden adding new "rules" to it so that you feel better about participating? If you don't like the way it is as it stands DON'T PARTICIPATE! Or start a new "Follow My Rules PIF" and see how that goes.

Bottom line, if you want equity or assurance in what you're going to get or that you're even going to get something, don't participate in PIF instead work out what you would feel is an equitable trade with someone else for smokes you want for smokes they want. That's really why this forum is called Cigar Trading.

The old PIF will still be there. So it’s up to anybody to go and participate. If people decide to create new PIF with new rules, those rules has to be followed. I don't think anybody would create 3rd PIF if old one was working well. Obviously it doesn't work, less people participate and more people getting burn. I did cover other peoples PIF, so it won’t die, but I am not going to do it all the time.
I wouldn't call it "Follow My Rules PIF", but something like Premium Cigar Trade. I won’t even use word PIF. Trust me, it will work. We have a lot of stand up guys on this forum, who never participated in PIF before, and would probably join the new one. I can name at least 20 people, with who I would not hesitate to trade. Those guys don't even need rules.
If anybody wants to jump on creating new "PIF", I would be the one of the first to join.

I might be a bit too altruistic but I have always thought that the idea of something like this was the joy of giving, to hear how someone reacted to the cigars you sent or to really be generous with a fellow forum member.

I think the basic problem with the PIF's is that too many people take on the responsibility without truly understanding the concept.

The whole I dea is to send off cigars to someone you don't really know. Hopefully this inspires them to be kinder and more generous to others, not just people in a PIF.

Besides, the way the rules work, you should ask for a mooch within 24 hours and be sending your package out within 48 hours, so you should never receive your cigars before sending off your PIF to the next guy.

I wish there was a way to "sticky" the PIF rules to the top of each page, this way everyone would be more aware of what is involved. Maybe one way to improve participant response will be to make them repsond with a pledge instead of "I'm a mooch!" Have them say, "I have read the PIF rules and I'm ready to be an honorable player!"

Corny, but people need to realize that they aren't volunteering to just receive cigars but more importantly to GIVE cigars.