Yesterday the verdict in the Sean Bell case came down. The cops were acquitted on all counts. As usual Black people are screaming the usual it's open season on Black males and other inflamentory type of rhetoric.

I have two questions: Why is that when somebody is shot by cops in the majority of cases the person that is shot is Black. Is it because the in the majority of encounters the police have with people, most of the people are Black males and therefore that would account of the number of Black males being shot?

Also more importantly, why is that the State can never proved these cases. I'll speak about cases in the NYC area because those are the ones I'm familiar. With the exception of the Abner Louima case, the cops in the Patrick Dorsmond, Amadu Diallo cases, and a few other cases were all aquitted.

I've come to the conclusion that in an attempt to appease the Black community (i.e. Al Sharpton and friends,) that the DA is bringing forth BS indictments. In other words the DA is putting itself behind the 8 Ball from jump.

Speaking as a layman with limited knowledge of the legal system, I know it's fairly easy to get an indictment. During the Whitewater investigations wasn't it one of Clinton's compatriots that said, "You can indict a ham sandwich."

With that being said, it's one thing to get the indictment, it's quite another to prove the charges in the indictment.

I say this as a Black guy that used to have a very militant "EFF THE POLICE! Most of the people in law enforcement are bad, racist, and corrupt."

As I got older, my view of cops mellowed and I see them as very courageous, brave, civic minded individuals who truly want to make their communities better places.

I can see the cops beating the manslaughter beef, but the reckless endagnerment? Like I said, I'm not a cop, but it that where me in a similiar situation, I would at least got found guilty of the reckless endangerment.

What does this have to do with cigars??? NOT A DAMN THING!!!!

Here's the NYPD rant on this issue

What a difference 40 years makes! I'm a life long (white) resident of Birmingham, Al and, for years, I've listened to more enlightened people from the Northeast and West Coast spew crap about my city as if nothing has changed here and we're still hosing down civil rights demonstrators and sicking police dogs on them. But where do the police shoot or beat blacks, get acquitted and touch off riots and/or protests? That would be New York and LA, those oases of racial harmony and tolerance.

Great. 700th post on this thread.

I think the judge clearly described his beliefs for siding with the defense.

Hydragoat, good link.

Did any of you hear about the case on Long Island where this black home owner shot an 18yr old in the face who was on his driveway?
He felt the kid (white) and his friends were threatening and he had to protect himself. He used an illegal handgun to murder.
I forgot what he was convicted of but he pretty much walked with 2yrs of time already served.
Where was the media on this story?

I don't really know all the facts of this story, however, most cops deserve our respect and admiration. When a cop puts on his uniform and goes to work, there is always a possibility that he/she will not return home.

I heard about that Long Island thing. That case was mostly a local thing. Unfortunatley, the White/Black dichotmy will always get play in this country due to the history of race relations in America.

The interesting thing about this case, it wasn't really a racial incident. This would have did the samething if the kids had been White, Hispanic, or whatever. It's a damn shame he had to go jail at all. If you ask me he shouldn't have been charged at all. This is an other example of the effeminization and esmasculation of America.

the proscueters did not prove their case. bottom line. it also did not help that the 2 victims in the case did not do well on the witness stand.coming across as confrontational and obnoxious.as well as liars. none of this helped their cause.

quote:

Originally posted by Presley:When a cop puts on his uniform and goes to work, there is always a possibility that he/she will not return home.

But not as risky as these tough jobs.

top ten dangerous jobs

mosy hazardous jobs

most dangerous jobs

And they take it rather well. I wonder how many people got riddled with bullets from a lumberjack or a fisherman.

These cases kill me .... When the police say STOP! just STOP! Any person given less than 1 second to decide to shoot ot not would probably have done the same thing. I am glad to see the guys got off, but I do think most police need better training on when and how to use deadly force.

quote:

Why is that when somebody is shot by cops in the majority of cases the person that is shot is Black.

Thats an easy one don't you watch the six o'clock news.
" The Black Guy Did It"
That is the whole consensus isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by hydragoat:
But not as risky as these tough jobs.

top ten dangerous jobs

mosy hazardous jobs

most dangerous jobs

And they take it rather well. I wonder how many people got riddled with bullets from a lumberjack or a fisherman.

I don't know how you do it, goat. Post after post, you manage to throw up the most idiotic nonsense.

So now you trivialize the law enforcement profession by listing jobs that statistically have more fatalities? You really have some nerve to imply that farmers and truck drivers have it far worse.

In those jobs you list, the fatalities are the result of accidents. When cop goes down, most of the time it is the result of some street trash murdering them. Also, I don't see cops making 1,000 a day like a fisherman can.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sobek,

You gotta love statistics 95% of them are made up right on the spot.Besides what does that have to do with anything discussed here?

quote:

Originally posted by sobek:
I don't know how you do it, goat. Post after post, you manage to throw up the most idiotic nonsense.

So now you trivialize the law enforcement profession by listing jobs that statistically have more fatalities?

I agree. I have no idea what point he was trying to make?

I'm not in law enforcement myself, but I do have several family members that are. The only problem I had with this case was the overkill. I don't mean to pun the word, but did anyone read how many times this guy was shot? One of the cops went through more than 2 clips. I was talking to my cousin who was involved in one confrontation involving firing his weapon and he couldn't understand it either. I understand the "trigger happy" part of a fight, when you're scared and you empty your gun out of reflex. But to reload two times? I don't know.... As far as the race thing goes, weren't 2 of the cops black?

quote:

Originally posted by sobek:

So now you trivialize the law enforcement profession by listing jobs that statistically have more fatalities? You really have some nerve to imply that farmers and truck drivers have it far worse.

First of all gatorgod, as far as I see no cops got killed in that altercation. None of them got shot at. Tax papers will not only have to foot the bill for the lawsuits that will take place they will have to foot the bill for the defense lawyers also.

And yes I think that the jobs with higher fatality rates have it tougher. What is not in those death rates is the rates of amputations and other injuries wiith permanent & often crippling consequences, not to speak of industrial diseases. If you take that into account the picture is much worse.

Look when we were kids and we saw police cars with sirens and fire engines with sirens...a lot of us wanted to be just like that.
There was an aura about those people in uniforms.
Are they better than the rest of us?
Answer that the way you wish.

And police work, is a unionized government job with security, union protection, reasonably good wages and benefits in big city`s and sate and federal services. It is a way to the middle class.

And if you, Presley and KKL think that my posts are nonsense...
Coming from the likes of people like you it`s a compliment.

quote:

Originally posted by hydragoat:
First of all gatorgod, as far as I see no cops got killed in that altercation. None of them got shot at. Tax papers will not only have to foot the bill for the lawsuits that will take place they will have to foot the bill for the defense lawyers also.

First off, goat, you were making a generalization of all police officers. It is wrong to paint an entire group, based on the mistake of a few.

quote:

And yes I think that the jobs with higher fatality rates have it tougher. What is not in those death rates is the rates of amputations and other injuries wiith permanent & often crippling consequences, not to speak of industrial diseases. If you take that into account the picture is much worse.

Pure ignorance, plain and simple.

Almost every job on those lists are high risk/high reward jobs. They pay a disproportionately high salaries. People jump at the chance to take those jobs because most of them do not have any legal means to make anywhere close to that much money.

What you fail to recognize is that almost all of those fatalities/accidents are the result of stupidity and incompetence. Truck drivers are injured because they fall asleep at the wheel. Construction workers are injured because many of them work union jobs and get drunk as hell at their lunch hour.

There are life-long lumberjacks, truck drivers, fisherman, etc. These are the guys who know what they are doing and do their work responsibly. The high fatalities come from morons, who are trying to make a quick buck, jumping into a dangerous job they are not prepared for.

quote:

Look when we were kids and we saw police cars with sirens and fire engines with sirens...a lot of us wanted to be just like that.
There was an aura about those people in uniforms.
Are they better than the rest of us?
Answer that the way you wish.

Well it is certainly clear that you have some personal issues with the police. perhaps you got locked up or roughed up at some point.

No one is saying police officers are better. You seemed to have that pre-existing chip on your shoulder.

quote:

And police work, is a unionized government job with security, union protection, reasonably good wages and benefits in big city`s and sate and federal services. It is a way to the middle class.

Again, you are ignorant. Starting salary for the NYPD is 25,100. A crab fisherman can make 1-2k a day. Even a garbage man makes much more than a rookie cop.

I happen to live in NYC. That salary is not even half of the minimum it takes to live here. Most of these guys live worse than college frat boys for their first 10+ yrs on the job, or they live with their parents to survive financially.

quote:

And if you, Presley and KKL think that my posts are nonsense...
Coming from the likes of people like you it`s a compliment.

Must be a special day for you because someone actually gave one of your posts a second thought. 99% of your posts are about as momentous as a tree falling in a forest.

quote:

Again, you are ignorant. Starting salary for the NYPD is 25,100. A crab fisherman can make 1-2k a day. Even a garbage man makes much more than a rookie cop.

I happen to live in NYC. That salary is not even half of the minimum it takes to live here. Most of these guys live worse than college frat boys for their first 10+ yrs on the job, or they live with their parents to survive financially.

This is true but i will tell you this having over half my family in law enforcement.They all except handouts, hey think about how much money you could make with a gun and a badge.Ever since they cut back the salaries corruption is at an all time high.The new breed of policemen make the guys from the Serpico days look like alter boys.They are even available for contract assignations no longer does the Mob have a monopoly on killing.Or they are bottom of the barrel recruits no one decent wants the job.Many look to go out on false injury claims and early retirements which ends up costing the city more money not to mention the law suits from incidents like this one.Someone had better step in and do something about it soon.I grew up in Brooklyn i feel sorry for those still forced to live there.And rely on the police to protect them.

You're kidding right?

Police salaries in Ontario are significantly higher than the US. After 1 year a constable can easily make $50,000, not including over time or assignments (extra security for film crews, traffic control for construction sites, etc.)

O.P.P. Salary Grid

Cadet $ 32,436.00

Probationary Constable
0 – 12 months $ 41,684.00

Constable
12 – 18 months $ 53,148.00
18 – 24 months $ 60,744.00
24 – 36 months $ 67,578.00
36 months to 7 years $ 75,926.00

A handful of sergeants and patrolmen on the Boston PD make well over $100K a year by combining their salary with private detail work (which was plentiful during the Big Dig). But to do it, they literally don't take a day off and are working two shifts a day, every day. In Massachusetts, you can't even open a manhole for five minutes without having to pay a Boston cop on private detail for a minimum of five hours.

But on the original topic, the fairness or unfairness of the verdict in this case aside, other than to the victim's family, I wonder if those of you on this board that are in law enforcement don't think the most unfortunate consequence is to public perception? Ever since the Rodney King decision, which no one in the entire country was happy about except the law enforcement community, the public notion has been getting stronger and stronger that police officers can do pretty much whatever they want, and do it with complete impunity. Especially if it's to a black man.

In collective memory, Abner Louima's torture and sodomizing while in police custody, the equally stunning acquital in the Diallo case, and the Khiel Coppin whitewashing seem like only last week. It becomes easier to understand, though hopefully not agree with, the perception in the urban African-American community that the police are their hated and feared enemy.

Lest anyone mistake my attitude, I believe most police officers are dedicated public servants who try their best to uphold the oaths they've taken to protect and serve, and live up to the public trust placed in them. Benefits notwithstanding, they don't get paid enough. But still, while you'd think police departments and their unions would want to weed out and get rid of the small handful of truly bad cops, they instead seem to circle the wagons around them, and it's frustrating.

At least Mayor Bloomberg had the decency and good sense in the Bell case not to villify the victim in order to defend his cops, a la Rudy Guiliani or some posters on NYPD Rant.