Originally posted by kdhoffma: Dee Dee, I make spelling mistakes and grammar errors all the time. However, I don't make posts calling people idiots. I guess my feelings were just hurt jk
Look, all I wanted to do was point out that anti-counterfeit man has some credibility issues. I don't think his idea sucks, I just don't trust him. I personally feel uncomfortable around sales people. Maybe I'm way off, and judged him too quickly. I'll work on that!
I promise to not be one of those posters who looks for people to come down on in an effort to make up for my own insecurities. If I've come across this way, then I apologize.
awww! wow. what a sweety pie you are. i was just more curious about this newbie's idea is all. i love new ideas and concepts. i know when people come up with them, well, i want to know more about the ideas before newbies feel unwanted.
i'm not necessarily wanting to be a gullible-type, (even though i have been called that before), it's just i kind of wanted to hear more about this sort of thing. i like to pretend like i know more than my cigar cronies at the cigar lounge from time to time. haha!
anyway, i apologize if i have come across in a bad way to you. have a good night.
I have made it a rule never to smoke more that one cigar at a time. -- Mark Twain
Posts: 284 | Location: In the SouthWest! | Registered: December 10, 2005
Thanks for your kind words through out this discussion.
I really do appreciated it....Like I had said earlier, for a while a felt like some rape victim on trail....I haven't done anything but try to inform the public of what is out there and a possible solution for us the consumers so we won't be taken for a ride.
quote:
Originally posted by DeeDee:
quote:
Originally posted by kdhoffma: Dee Dee, I make spelling mistakes and grammar errors all the time. However, I don't make posts calling people idiots. I guess my feelings were just hurt jk
Look, all I wanted to do was point out that anti-counterfeit man has some credibility issues. I don't think his idea sucks, I just don't trust him. I personally feel uncomfortable around sales people. Maybe I'm way off, and judged him too quickly. I'll work on that!
I promise to not be one of those posters who looks for people to come down on in an effort to make up for my own insecurities. If I've come across this way, then I apologize.
awww! wow. what a sweety pie you are. i was just more curious about this newbie's idea is all. i love new ideas and concepts. i know when people come up with them, well, i want to know more about the ideas before newbies feel unwanted.
i'm not necessarily wanting to be a gullible-type, (even though i have been called that before), it's just i kind of wanted to hear more about this sort of thing. i like to pretend like i know more than my cigar cronies at the cigar lounge from time to time. haha!
anyway, i apologize if i have come across in a bad way to you. have a good night.
Posts: 27 | Location: Sunrise Florida or Merida Mexico | Registered: July 18, 2006
Hmm, do these special lenses also work while reading online posts? I mean, I know without a doubt I would pay for them if, when I read a post, it showed a big TROLL next to everyone who is a troll. Oh, wait a minute, I have some common sense, experience reading internet posts, and a memory that lets put the first two to use. Guess I really don't need the lenses anymore. Come to think of it, those same three things just might work for cigars as well. Maybe that's just a coincidence as well.
Posts: 591 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: May 02, 2002
I really do appreciated it....Like I had said earlier, for a while a felt like some rape victim on trail....I haven't done anything but try to inform the public of what is out there and a possible solution for us the consumers so we won't be taken for a ride.
ACM,
You have yet to do anything other then protest to prove that you aren't a shill. You keep racking up troll points everytime you post.
Alan
Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one that inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it. --Mark Twain
B.A.S.E. #0006 <(O)>
Posts: 770 | Location: Greater Boston Area | Registered: August 16, 2004
Originally posted by PFSGoldenEagle: Hmm, do these special lenses also work while reading online posts? I mean, I know without a doubt I would pay for them if, when I read a post, it showed a big TROLL next to everyone who is a troll. Oh, wait a minute, I have some common sense, experience reading internet posts, and a memory that lets put the first two to use. Guess I really don't need the lenses anymore. Come to think of it, those same three things just might work for cigars as well. Maybe that's just a coincidence as well.
You beat me to it. Was pretty obvious from the get go. Newbie yes, many times over & over & over....
Posts: 1346 | Location: Back in Cigar City | Registered: April 30, 2004
Hello Everyone! In the last few days, since I wrote to this forum, to discuss my problems in the past with being a victim of Counterfeit Cigars and a possible solution, I've found out that their are alot more people out there (or in this forum) that would rather remain NON-informed to the alternatives that are available to protect us as consumers. I hope you guys continue to enjoy your free time to this forum and hopefully come up with something constructive or at least creative to add to a real problem that exist. FYI.... I had a friend over and he read all the comments that I had received and with the exception of 4 people, his comment was "your dealing with a real peanut gallery"....
Does anyone have anything consrutctive to say?
Or is this a forum to poke fun at peoples ideas and bad experiences???
Posts: 27 | Location: Sunrise Florida or Merida Mexico | Registered: July 18, 2006
ACM, with all due respect (and I liked your intervention in the Fuente thread), you don't get it do you ?
It is NOT a question of poking fun at your mishaps (though, judging from your outrage, you seem to have been conned more than anybody I've ever known).
It is NOT a question of wanting to stay uninformed (anyway, you seem to be more interested in the feedback we might provide on "your" device than informing us on it's existence - forget that it is not even in use).
It doen't even have to do with the Tag System itself which, as DeeDee and some others pointed out, has potential. So where's the beef ?
The beef is : your relationship with Tag Systems is, to say the least, unclear. There is a definite appearance of conflict of interest in all this. You present yourself as a victim looking for solutions, when you are most probably an entrepreneur (or a friend of said entrepreneur) with a solution. It is a logical strategy : fish for feedback on the CA Forums playing innocent, get everybody riled up, and hopefully attract the attention of the magazine's bosses or cigar industry moguls who will then contact your partners, buy your the idea and make you a percentage. I might be a little off on some details, but not that much, I am sure. Also, you're recurring leitmotiv of us not caring about knowing if we smoked counterfeits and all that paternizing, condescending garbage is simply completely off track. You can repeat it ad nauseam if you wish, but you are only fooling yourself. It seems to be the parachute you put on when things didn't go quite as expected. As for the "witness" thing, I could get 12 people to read this thread and agree to my point of view. It doesn't cut cheese.
But, as I said before, your motives are somewhat noble and I have no grudges against you. Ceteris paribus, you seem like a nice guy. This is why I am taking the time to explain all this to you.
By the way, in a similar though much more obvious pattern, check out the interventions of Midwestkel. He is lurking the threads and, at each of his posts, he gives a link to the same cigar store claiming this store has the solution to all your problems. Another guy using this forum for commercial reasons ! I know you are not doing EXACTLY the same thing, but I hope you can see the similarities.
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
Im not worried about special lenses and all that goofy crap. If someone strays away from a reputable dealer and gets burned.. ie, buys lawn sausages from some dude on Yahoo auctions thinking he's buying real habanos, he deserves to smoke lawn sausages. stick with reputable dealers and you wont have to worry about smoking counterfeits
ACM, I don't feel like I have "a dog in this fight" and I will go ahead and say that I believe any "security device" that is implemented will likely be compromised fairly quickly by counterfeiters. They are highly motivated to do so. Also, I don't believe serious cigar smokers are interested in paying for security gadgets and inexperienced cigar smokers are not your target market. So, even if the device works initially, I don't think there is a large enough market for such a device. I am developing a relationship with my local shop, and I would think that brandishing my "secret decoder lens" in his shop would be an insult to him and his business. I choose to rely on my continuing education in cigars and instinct. Also, if I feel that I cannot trust a source, then I have every right to find another.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: TSF,
"The more a feller’s got on his mind, the less time he's got to think on any one thing." - Festus Haggen
Posts: 1006 | Location: Georgia, USA | Registered: January 18, 2006
Going way back to the original question, there are some anti-counterfeiting measures used by various manufacturers. The Cubans use a hologram. The Padron family uses a second, numbered band on some of its cigars. Fuente relies in part on a terribly elaborate type of gold used on its Fuente Fuente OpusX band. There are other things as well. Most of these measures will only work if a consumer is very, very familiar with how the real product looks.
The sad fact is that the potential profit margin is way too high and the potential downside is far too small to keep people from trying to counterfeit cigars.
Posts: 2201 | Location: New York, NY | Registered: April 23, 2002
Originally posted by flashman: ACM, with all due respect (and I liked your intervention in the Fuente thread), you don't get it do you ?
It is NOT a question of poking fun at your mishaps (though, judging from your outrage, you seem to have been conned more than anybody I've ever known).
It is NOT a question of wanting to stay uninformed (anyway, you seem to be more interested in the feedback we might provide on "your" device than informing us on it's existence - forget that it is not even in use).
It doen't even have to do with the Tag System itself which, as DeeDee and some others pointed out, has potential. So where's the beef ?
The beef is : your relationship with Tag Systems is, to say the least, unclear. There is a definite appearance of conflict of interest in all this. You present yourself as a victim looking for solutions, when you are most probably an entrepreneur (or a friend of said entrepreneur) with a solution. It is a logical strategy : fish for feedback on the CA Forums playing innocent, get everybody riled up, and hopefully attract the attention of the magazine's bosses or cigar industry moguls who will then contact your partners, buy your the idea and make you a percentage. I might be a little off on some details, but not that much, I am sure. Also, you're recurring leitmotiv of us not caring about knowing if we smoked counterfeits and all that paternizing, condescending garbage is simply completely off track. You can repeat it ad nauseam if you wish, but you are only fooling yourself. It seems to be the parachute you put on when things didn't go quite as expected. As for the "witness" thing, I could get 12 people to read this thread and agree to my point of view. It doesn't cut cheese.
But, as I said before, your motives are somewhat noble and I have no grudges against you. Ceteris paribus, you seem like a nice guy. This is why I am taking the time to explain all this to you.
By the way, in a similar though much more obvious pattern, check out the interventions of Midwestkel. He is lurking the threads and, at each of his posts, he gives a link to the same cigar store claiming this store has the solution to all your problems. Another guy using this forum for commercial reasons ! I know you are not doing EXACTLY the same thing, but I hope you can see the similarities.
I've been sitting back watching this post unfold, and I have to say flashman, I feel you hit the nail on the head. Couldn't agree with you more.
Cheers
-------------------------- "You expect for me to love you, when you hate yourself my friend."
-CSNY
Posts: 181 | Location: Gilbert, AZ | Registered: October 16, 2002
Flashman, that link on the bottom of my post is called a signature. It looks to me like most of the people have signatures and if you have been apart of any other forum you would see that a lot of people that are selling things post their link to thier website in the forums. Also in only one post did I mention my store, and lurking in post isnt that what you are supposed to do in a forum, post things? As far as I have seen I have not broken any forum rules and also everyone else is advertising other peoples website might as well mention mine. And I am being an active forum member and dont see any problems, I am very happy with my work and like to show it off, I do website design and in website design forum I post my site for that so please dont mention my name with any disrespect. Thanks.
Sorry Midwestkel, got a little carried way, didn't mean any disrespect. At least you are clear and honest about your intentions. Thought I saw a red flag but I was wrong. Hope you accept my apologies.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: flashman,
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
Thanks for the reply I do accept your apologies. I am a semi-expert on cigars so if you need anything let me know, if I dont know it I can find out to. happy posting!
Besides the headache inducing posts (all his posts have been in this thread, I'm surprised he hasn't been tossed for solicitation yet) ACM's ideas have some major holes.
1. What about online purchases? If we had the key and the box showed up counterfeit, yes we'd know they were fake, but if the dealer was unscrupulous, we'd already be screwed.
2. What about singles sold in shops? They could refill valid boxes with a genuine label with fake cigars.
3. For most manufacturers, this would add an unacceptable cost to cigars which aren't heavily counterfeited.
4. Nobody should be buying high-end cigars from sources they trust. I'm not going to Edicion De Silvio's from a guy on street, I'm going to buy them from a reputable dealer like Holt's.
5. The concept of having to carry a "key" with me to make a purchase sucks. I don't think it would catch on.
6. Passive security measures have already been duplicated by counterfeiters, what makes you think that special labels and keys wouldn't be?
7. People are stupid, I have seen dozens of boxes of fake Cubans with poor fake Cuban Warranty Seals, where the buyer KNEW the seals were off (lacking micro printing, UV ink, etc), but insisted it was just a printing problem or they were "old" labels when they were clearly the new style. The point is, some people just want to say they have Cubans or whatever, they aren't interested in guaranteeing it's real. Especially when they get fales for $150 when the real deal is $280.
8. The most widely counterfeited cigars in the world but Cuba makes only a token attempt to curb the problem. Cuba uses the "new" warranty seal to help curb fakes and they are just pennies apiece, they ceratinly wouldn't a $5 security measure.
9. The link to Cigar Nexus is valid info, if a littel dated. that site hasn't been updated in years and Steve Sako works for JR Cigars now.
jk 
