Originally posted by cigarmanron: Just an observation ... a lot of Americans are absolutely crazy in love (obsessed) with their guns and also their SUVs.
*********************** "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Anonymous
Raven is absolutely correct. But why is this ? Here is something that sdresses the situation without utilising racist ideology to explain it (some New Orleans news source, june 20 2006. The second half is especially relevant:
"When the FBI released its latest annual crime report showing that violent crime is on the upswing in many big cities, a bevy of law enforcement, officials, and criminologists prayed that the report was just an aberrant blip on the crime chart.
There was good reason to hope that: murder rates have plunged in big cities during the past decade, and there was every expectation that things would stay that way.
The recent slaughter of five teens in New Orleans and a desperate plea from Mayor Ray Nagin to send in the National Guard to help patrol the streets shattered that hope. While the murder rate in big cities is still lower than it was a decade ago, the terrifying reality is that in New Orleans and other big cities, the victims and their killers are almost always young black males.
In the 25 years of homicide records from 1976 to 2002 by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks are six times more likely to be murdered than whites, and seven times more likely to kill than whites. They are far more likely to be gunned down over gang or drug disputes. New Orleans police speculate that that was the reason the five teens were killed.
President Bush recognized that big city violence was a crisis problem. In his State of the Union Address in 2005, he pledged to shell out $150 million to youth education and violence prevention programs. It was well intentioned, but it was still a far cry from what was needed to stem the gunplay on urban streets. And as has been the case with other Bush initiatives, unveiled with much public fanfare, the attack on urban violence has fizzled out due to lack of money and lack of will to push it through. But even if the money and will were there, that would not get at the cause of why so many young blacks kill each other.
More police, prosecutors, "three strikes" and mandatory sentencing laws, the death penalty, and the nearly one million blacks behind bars have done little to curb this carnage. Despite the pet theories of liberals and conservatives, blacks aren't killing each other because they are violent or crime-prone by nature, because they are poor and oppressed, or even because they are acting out the obscene violence they see and hear on TV, films, and in gangster-rap lyrics.
The violence results from a combustible blend of cultural and racial baggage many blacks carry. In the past, crimes committed by blacks against other blacks were often ignored or lightly punished. The implicit message was that black lives were expendable. It would be no surprise if the killer or killers of the New Orleans teens had a long, violent rap sheet but continued to roam the streets.
Many studies have confirmed that the punishment violent blacks receive when their victim is white is far more severe than if the victim is black. This perceived devaluation of black lives by racism has provoked disrespect for the law, and has forced many blacks to internalize anger and misplace aggression onto other blacks -- especially those that are perceived as weak or defenseless.
Far too many young black males have become especially adept at acting out their frustrations at white society's denial of their "manhood" by adopting an exaggerated "tough guy" role. They swagger, boast, curse, fight and commit violent, self-destructive acts. When many black males indulge their murderous impulses on other black males, they are often taking out their pent-up frustrations on those whom they perceive as helpless and hapless. This is a warped response to racism and deprivation, blocked opportunities, powerlessness and alienation.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics noted that the other powerful ingredient in the deadly mix of black-on-black violence is the gang and drug plague. The resurgence of the drug trade in recent years and the flood of felons from prisons have made black gangs even bigger and more dangerous. Drug trafficking not only provided illicit profits, but also made gun play more widespread. Gang members used their arsenals to fend off attacks, protect their profits from predators, and settle scores with rivals. Broken homes, miserably failing inner city schools, and a chronic unemployment rate among young blacks -- which is double and triple that of white males in urban areas -- haven't helped matters.
Other than comedian Bill Cosby and some outraged local black leaders, mainstream civil rights figures haven't said or done much about the black carnage. The sight of the National Guard on New Orleans streets may be a temporary comfort to residents and city officials, but it's only that: temporary comfort.
An impassioned Mayor Nagin put it best: local residents and community groups must put their foot down, say enough is enough, and take back their streets. That's still the best way to stop the violence."
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
Originally posted by DR505: I've been either military or law enforcement for 20+ years. I'm a Fireamrs Instructor for my agency. I carry a pistol (Glock 21 .45 ACP) every day for work. I have been to too many scenes where a person or persons have been brutally murdered because they did not have a means to defend themselves. The police, by the very nature of their work, normally are reactive, and show up after the shooting is done. I'd rather see more law abiding citizens able to defend themselves with the proper firearm and proper training.
An armed society is a polite society.
I've also lived overseas and seen restrictive gun laws. The folks there are easy prey for an armed felon. But then most of Europe (and Canada, IMHO) seems rather socialist so they really don't care much for personal liberty.
Remember, criminals are not leagally entitled to possess firearms, so laws are irrelevant to them. Passing further restrictive laws just serves to disarm those law abiding folks who SHOULD have firearms.
DR505,
You have just stated, succintly, the most pragmatic and logical statement I have ever read in this "Cigar Lounge".
I just yesterday, re-read for the umpteenth time, George Orwell's (Eric Blair) "Animal Farm". The re-read continues to remind me that guns are my friend.
Bones Heal - Chicks Dig Scars - Pain Is Temporary
Posts: 79 | Location: Deep in the heart of Texas | Registered: July 13, 2006
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kdhoffma: [QUOTE]Originally posted by mikeyd501: [QUOTE]Originally posted by kdhoffma:
[QUOTE]Your point is well taken with regards to my kids and their friends parents. The fact is I can't be with them all of the time. I will take preventative steps as much as possible, such as demanding that anyone I know who has guns keeps them locked up with the ammo locked in a seperate place anytime that we are over. /QUOTE]
kdhffma,
That's quite a demand for being in someone else's home. If you walked into my home and DEMANDED that I lock up my weapons and separate my ammo, you would be DEMANDED to leave my home.
Bones Heal - Chicks Dig Scars - Pain Is Temporary
Posts: 79 | Location: Deep in the heart of Texas | Registered: July 13, 2006
Originally posted by FirstReconUSMC: And, Raven, I knew your avitar had military written all over it (sorry for ending a seentence in a preposition). Long live LRS's, LRRP's, Recon and the rest.
And forum members, remember: A loaded weapon is only as good as when you need it.
My Avatar is a beret flash from the 1st BN 10th Special Forces Group in Germany from the early 80's when I was with the 10th SFG in Germany. The 10th Special Forces Group beret flash for the 2nd BN and 3rd BN stationed stateside was solid green. In the late 80's the one I show here was dropped and the solid green flash is now used for all members of the 10th Special Forces Group both state side and in Germany.
I noticed your avatar too and have that same drawing hanging in my office at work. It reminds me of my days on a LRS Tean. I carried both the M203 and humped the PRC 77 radio as shown in the drawing. We wore the booney hat most of the time as well.
Raven,
I'm pleased to know that what I use as an avitar is hanging on your office wall. It's from an original pencil sketch, which has been sold as posters for persons of like-thinking, such as you and I.
I was with 1st Recon, 1st Marine Division, and did back-to-back Nam tours in 65-66 (the Old Corps). I humped a PRC-10 and, on long and faraway missions had to pack the old AN/GR-9; another Marine had to pack the hand crank generator for the radio, which was a very hefty load for us both. But, it did work from LONG distances.
Raven, Welcome Home!
Bones Heal - Chicks Dig Scars - Pain Is Temporary
Posts: 79 | Location: Deep in the heart of Texas | Registered: July 13, 2006
Originally posted by flashman: Very perceptive and exact. And you are making my point.
All this just goes to prove my initial opinion about "gun culture" being different in different places and that there is no ONE way to look at it. There are pluses and minuses both ways.
Flashman,
As much as I dislike agreeing with you: your operative phrase "gun culture" is on the mark.
Bones Heal - Chicks Dig Scars - Pain Is Temporary
Posts: 79 | Location: Deep in the heart of Texas | Registered: July 13, 2006
Originally posted by cigarmanron: Just an observation ... a lot of Americans are absolutely crazy in love (obsessed) with their guns and also their SUVs.
So, what's wrong with that? And, your probably referring to the here and now. Guns go back in US history a very long time. Hell, there wouldn't be a US if there were no guns in 1776.
As far as SUV's, I agree with you. My observation: most SUV's are driven by soccer mom's with a cell phone in their ear. And they have no clue to the law of physics as to how long it takes to effectively apply the brakes with kids in the back seat and a couple of tons of metal and plastic sliding to a screeching halt!
Bones Heal - Chicks Dig Scars - Pain Is Temporary
Posts: 79 | Location: Deep in the heart of Texas | Registered: July 13, 2006
Originally posted by FirstReconUSMC: [QUOTE]Originally posted by kdhoffma: [QUOTE]Originally posted by mikeyd501: [QUOTE]Originally posted by kdhoffma:
[QUOTE]Your point is well taken with regards to my kids and their friends parents. The fact is I can't be with them all of the time. I will take preventative steps as much as possible, such as demanding that anyone I know who has guns keeps them locked up with the ammo locked in a seperate place anytime that we are over. /QUOTE]
kdhffma,
That's quite a demand for being in someone else's home. If you walked into my home and DEMANDED that I lock up my weapons and separate my ammo, you would be DEMANDED to leave my home.
Damn recon, I even baked you a cake that I was going to bring with me... Oh well, I guess I'll eat it myself.
You're right, it's completely unreasonable for me to feel uncomfortable about my 2 year old son being in a home with unlocked guns. From now on I'm going to leave boiling pots of water on the edge of the stove, poisonious chemicals in the pantry with his favorite cookies, and metal forks laying by every outlet!
Damn recon, I even baked you a cake that I was going to bring with me... Oh well, I guess I'll eat it myself.
You're right, it's completely unreasonable for me to feel uncomfortable about my 2 year old son being in a home with unlocked guns. From now on I'm going to leave boiling pots of water on the edge of the stove, poisonious chemicals in the pantry with his favorite cookies, and metal forks laying by every outlet!
I understand your concern for your child...but you can't expect someone you are visiting to "baby proof" his house because your child might do something he shouldn't (and why would someone let their child wander off in someone else's house unattended?).
Posts: 203 | Location: New Mexico - The Land of Entrapment | Registered: May 12, 2006
Damn recon, I even baked you a cake that I was going to bring with me... Oh well, I guess I'll eat it myself.
You're right, it's completely unreasonable for me to feel uncomfortable about my 2 year old son being in a home with unlocked guns. From now on I'm going to leave boiling pots of water on the edge of the stove, poisonious chemicals in the pantry with his favorite cookies, and metal forks laying by every outlet!
I understand your concern for your child...but you can't expect someone you are visiting to "baby proof" his house because your child might do something he shouldn't (and why would someone let their child wander off in someone else's house unattended?).
I never said I wouldn't allow my children into someones house who doesn't use baby gates. And I would never let my children wander in another persons house. I also don't expect anyone I visit to lock up their guns, I just won't bring my young children over if they don't. My friends/family are free to do whatever they want.
How long would it take for my kid to open up an end table drawer and pull out a loaded gun? 5 seconds maybe? Would I be able to jump across the couch and stop him before he accidently discharges it? Maybe... maybe not!
I am just baffled by people who preach gun safety and education, but then keep loaded weapons in accesible locations of their house with young children.
But again, please reference my previous posts, I am not anti-guns.
Nam, '64,'65, &'66, took a discharge, and then went to work with (Changed for to with) Air America...(on the ground as an R.O.)
Bones,
It was the GRC-9, and Army radio. But, being in the Marines, a Dept. of the Navy, the radio was named AN/GRC-9 (Army Navy / GRC-9). Sounds like we humped some of the same heavy-a$$ stuff. Oh, and it was AM.
By the way, Bones, Air America save my butt on more than one occasion, but not in "Disneyland".
Welcome Home, Brother!
Bones Heal - Chicks Dig Scars - Pain Is Temporary
Posts: 79 | Location: Deep in the heart of Texas | Registered: July 13, 2006
Originally posted by FirstReconUSMC: [QUOTE]Originally posted by kdhoffma: [QUOTE]Originally posted by mikeyd501: [QUOTE]Originally posted by kdhoffma:
[QUOTE]Your point is well taken with regards to my kids and their friends parents. The fact is I can't be with them all of the time. I will take preventative steps as much as possible, such as demanding that anyone I know who has guns keeps them locked up with the ammo locked in a seperate place anytime that we are over. /QUOTE]
kdhffma,
That's quite a demand for being in someone else's home. If you walked into my home and DEMANDED that I lock up my weapons and separate my ammo, you would be DEMANDED to leave my home.
Damn recon, I even baked you a cake that I was going to bring with me... Oh well, I guess I'll eat it myself.
You're right, it's completely unreasonable for me to feel uncomfortable about my 2 year old son being in a home with unlocked guns. From now on I'm going to leave boiling pots of water on the edge of the stove, poisonious chemicals in the pantry with his favorite cookies, and metal forks laying by every outlet!
I'm so happy that you will not be coming to my house. You are the type of person I stay away from.
Bones Heal - Chicks Dig Scars - Pain Is Temporary
Posts: 79 | Location: Deep in the heart of Texas | Registered: July 13, 2006
And, Raven, I knew your avitar had military written all over it (sorry for ending a seentence in a preposition). Long live LRS's, LRRP's, Recon and the rest.
I'm lovin' this thread!
