This topic seams to be changing to gun saftey. so hears my two bits on the subject My hand guns are locked in the safe not a gun cabnet,the one rifle i do have that is not black powder, is 22 mag marlin bolt action rifle.the bolt is removed when not in use and placed in the safe with the handguns and my primer caps and bullets for the black powder. that way should my children ever break the lock on my closet they still do not have the key or know the combo to the safe to get to all that is needed to fire the guns. Remember the unloeded gun kills more people than the loeded one. (nice gun is it loeded? no it's not go ahead take a look see BOOM)
Don't like it YOU GO OUT SIDE!
Posts: 259 | Location: in the house enjoying a smoke | Registered: July 26, 2006
I own guns (hand, long and shotguns). My guns are kept in a gun safe for their protection and safety. My children (ages 6 & 4) have been taught and continue to be taught gun safety. I keep my guns loaded but either in the safe or on my person. I often test my kids by leaving a non-functioning gun out and within their sight. They inform their mother or me about the gun being out and tell us it needs to be put away. They have never touched any of my guns without permission. I will always assume that they will and never put them in harms way.
That being said I believe it is irresponsible for adults with guns to not teach their children gun safety, no matter what their age. It is never too young to start.
I can't wait until mine are old enough to shoot my .22 Marlin rifle that was given to me by my father. I also still have my 1st shotgun (new). A 410ga Remington Model 1100 with the original box!
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me. -- Mike Waidelich
I've been either military or law enforcement for 20+ years. I'm a Fireamrs Instructor for my agency. I carry a pistol (Glock 21 .45 ACP) every day for work. I have been to too many scenes where a person or persons have been brutally murdered because they did not have a means to defend themselves. The police, by the very nature of their work, normally are reactive, and show up after the shooting is done. I'd rather see more law abiding citizens able to defend themselves with the proper firearm and proper training.
An armed society is a polite society.
I've also lived overseas and seen restrictive gun laws. The folks there are easy prey for an armed felon. But then most of Europe (and Canada, IMHO) seems rather socialist so they really don't care much for personal liberty.
Remember, criminals are not leagally entitled to possess firearms, so laws are irrelevant to them. Passing further restrictive laws just serves to disarm those law abiding folks who SHOULD have firearms.
Posts: 203 | Location: New Mexico - The Land of Entrapment | Registered: May 12, 2006
Originally posted by QM: A gun in every room of the house? And they are?
Most of my weapons are kept locked up in my safe. In my den I keep a loaded Winchester model 94 Trapper in .357 magnum. It is a great porch rifle and holds 9 rounds in the tube and one in the chamber. In my bedroom I keep an HK USP in .40 S&W with a Sure Fire flashlight attached under the frame and forward of the triggar guard. In the kitchen I keep a Smith & Wesson model 686 7-shot .357 magnum with a 6 inch barrel. In my bathroom next to the toilet I keep a Smith & Wesson model 19 .357 magnum I had hard chromed and has a 2 and a half inch barrel.
I carry a Smith & Wesson "J" frame .38 special I had hard chromed on an ankle holster. When possoble I carry my favorite Sig Sauer P228 9mm that I customized, or my Sig Saur P225 9mm.
My truck rifle is either my mock M4A1 AR-15 with a Trijicon Reflex red dot sight. It has the Knights Arms modular hand guard with a pistol grip and 2 Sure Fire flashlights attached to the hand guard. My other truck rifle is a Springfield M1A Bush Rifle.
*********************** "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Anonymous
Originally posted by kdhoffma: I was just reading over some of these posts with a coworker and his response was that there should be a law that if you request a concealed weapons permit, you should automatically be denied. He based this on his experience that the only people who seem to want concealed weapons permits are the ones who shouldn't have them. Funny sH!T.
Not really, but it is to be expected. Kinda like the people who want you to not be able to smoke...ANYWHERE.
quote:
Anyhow, I don't own any guns. I grew up with guns (my father hunts regularly)
Did you hunt or do any shooting? Do you know how to handle a weapon?
quote:
As an adult I can see the pros and cons of gun ownership. However, in my situation the cons outweigh the pros. I will hopefully never have to buy a gun for protection.".
It may be to late at that point. You are either prepared to defend yourself and your family or you are not. If you are able to own a firearm and can afford to buy one and get some training, why wouldn't you?
quote:
However I will support your right to bear arms, as long as you don't get offended when I refuse to allow my children to come to your house in which you have a "gun in every room".
That's fine. Do you ask all of your kid’s friend's parents if they own guns? Wouldn't it be better to get your kids some basic firearms safety classes so they know what to do if they ever come across a weapon?
Mike D, all good points. I don't agree with my coworkers opinion of concealed weapons permits. I feel that most people who go to the trouble of applying (in most states/counties it is a difficult process) have taken the time to learn proper gun safety.
I know how to handle a weapon. I shot my dads .22 as a pre teen and I took Michigan's hunter safety course when I was 12. I received a 410 shotgun for my 13th birthday (stays in my dads gun cabinent). I've been deer hunting with a 12 gauge mossberg on a couple of occasions (although I never shot anything). I've also been to the range plenty of times. I've never used a handgun, only rifles and shotguns.
You're correct, it is a catch 22. At the moment I actually will need a firearm, it will probably be too late. However, with young children I would keep my guns locked up so chances are I would not have the opportunity to get to one until it was too late.
Your point is well taken with regards to my kids and their friends parents. The fact is I can't be with them all of the time. I will take preventative steps as much as possible, such as demanding that anyone I know who has guns keeps them locked up with the ammo locked in a seperate place anytime that we are over. I have every intention of teaching them gun safety, because it is something that everyone should know. Like I said, for me the cons outweigh the pros of keeping guns in my home.
Originally posted by FirstReconUSMC: And, Raven, I knew your avitar had military written all over it (sorry for ending a seentence in a preposition). Long live LRS's, LRRP's, Recon and the rest.
And forum members, remember: A loaded weapon is only as good as when you need it.
My Avatar is a beret flash from the 1st BN 10th Special Forces Group in Germany from the early 80's when I was with the 10th SFG in Germany. The 10th Special Forces Group beret flash for the 2nd BN and 3rd BN stationed stateside was solid green. In the late 80's the one I show here was dropped and the solid green flash is now used for all members of the 10th Special Forces Group both state side and in Germany.
I noticed your avatar too and have that same drawing hanging in my office at work. It reminds me of my days on a LRS Tean. I carried both the M203 and humped the PRC 77 radio as shown in the drawing. We wore the booney hat most of the time as well.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven35031,
*********************** "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Anonymous
Originally posted by FirstReconUSMC: Why do some people hate guns and gun owners so much?
I have observed that the people who hate and fear guns fall in one of two catagories or both:
1. People that have never been around guns and have no knowlegde about them. These people fear weapons and since they have no knowledge about them tend to believe weapons are a bad thing and should be banned.
2. People that grow up and live in places where guns are banned and live under a government that has convenced the population that guns are the root of all violent crime.
Remember this guns don't kill people, people kill people.
*********************** "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Anonymous
Originally posted by Raven35031: I have observed that the people who hate and fear guns fall in one of two catagories or both:
1. People that have never been around guns and have no knowlegde about them. These people fear weapons and since they have no knowledge about them tend to believe weapons are a bad thing and should be banned.
2. People that grow up and live in places where guns are banned and live under a government that has convenced the population that guns are the root of all violent crime.
Remember this guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Mike, your observations may be true where you live -- because of "gun culture" in Alabama -- but it simply does not apply to many other places where said gun culture is different.
As an example of how this affects not only mentality but gun crimes in general are the statistics that follow :
Gun deaths comparison by country per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
More or less similar differences can be observed for other violent crimes.
One conclusion to be made from these numbers is that -- given the crime rate in the USA -- you are justified to wan't to protect yourself. And must admit that you seem to take all the necessary precautions to limit accidents.
Another conclusion would be that guns are much less necessary here for that purpose.
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
Originally posted by DR505: But then most of Europe (and Canada, IMHO) seems rather socialist so they really don't care much for personal liberty.
DR505, you make valid points. However, the one above is not quite accurate. The socialism you describe as nothing to do with totalitarian socialism as applied in communist countries. The term socialism, in these cases, applies to the fact that these staes are more "welfare" oriented. It has nothing to do with civil liberties, which are pretty much the same as in the USA.
I mean, much has been said about the US, Europe and Canada being different: the US more "libertarian" and Europe more "welfare/socialist". Both sides tend to agree with this, and cite figures of 20% GNP going through government in the US vs 30-40% in Europe, Canada and Japan This idea has some LIMITED merit, but is overdrawn: if you add state and local taxes to federal figures for the USA, it is more like the 30% of the other industrial nations (most of them don't have state taxes in addition to the national taxes). And most European countries plus Canada are cutting back "social services" that they are discovering they can't afford. Add to this costs of personnal insurance in the US.
In fact, they and the US are(for better or worse) very much alike: what we could call "capitalist liberal democracies", with some nuances though.
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
Thanks for your post rebutting/discussing the post by kdhoffma. You saved me some typing.
And, if someone doesn't want their children to come to "my (responsible {my guns cannot be found by any child and I have many visitors with children}), law-abiding, concealed handgun license, which means I have been checked out by State and Federal FBI authorities; then, by all means don't let them come to my house".
Again, responsible gun owners get a bad rap due to what unresponsible gun owners do. Not to mention common criminals. Also, Columbine was due to teenagers raised by IRRESPONSIBLE parents. A child can get a gun anywhere, no matter in what what country you live. I believe parents should be licensed to have children. Look around at the dumba$$ kids we have in todays society.
Also the person who picked on the "hillbillies", shame on you. Shouldn't a pedantic jerk calling someone a hillbilliy be a "hate crime"? Oh, I forgot, hate crimes are defined by the liberal left and are qualified by them only. Forget the responsible gun owners, hillbillies included, and worry about pedophiles, crack heads, gangs, common and violent criminals, both of which carry illegally owned guns. Sheesh! I knoew starting this topic was eventually going to pi$$ me off. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if I do not agree. Nuff said.
"Hillbilly" FirstReconUSMC
Bones Heal - Chicks Dig Scars - Pain Is Temporary
Posts: 79 | Location: Deep in the heart of Texas | Registered: July 13, 2006
Originally posted by flashman: Mike, your observations may be true where you live -- because of "gun culture" in Alabama -- but it simply does not apply to many other places where said gun culture is different.
As an example of how this affects not only mentality but gun crimes in general are the statistics that follow :
Gun deaths comparison by country per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
More or less similar differences can be observed for other violent crimes.
One conclusion to be made from these numbers is that -- given the crime rate in the USA -- you are justified to wan't to protect yourself. And must admit that you seem to take all the necessary precautions to limit accidents.
Another conclusion would be that guns are much less necessary here for that purpose.
You left out some important information like:
Israel, with one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world, has a murder rate 40% below Canada's. There's no relationship internationally between gun ownership and murder rates. There are many countries with gun ownership rates similar to or higher than what we have in the US, and they have very low murder rates. The reverse is also true. There are many countries like Finland, Switzerland, and New Zealand that have virtually identical gun ownership rates to what we have in the US, and their murder rates are significantly lower than those of surrounding countries.
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me. -- Mike Waidelich
Very perceptive and exact. And you are making my point.
All this just goes to prove my initial opinion about "gun culture" being different in different places and that there is no ONE way to look at it. There are pluses and minuses both ways.
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
One also should look at what happens when gun-owning people in various countries lose that right. Take Australia for example:
quote:
"The number of Victorians murdered with firearms has almost trebled since the introduction of tighter gun laws. --Geelong Advertiser, Victoria, Sept. 11, 1997.
"Gun crime is on the rise despite tougher laws imposed after the Port Arthur massacre, but gun control lobbyists maintain Australia is a safer place. . . . The number of robberies involving guns jumped 39% last year to 2183, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, and assaults involving guns rose 28% to 806. The number of gun murders, excluding the Port Arthur massacre, increased by 19% to 75." --"Gun Crime Rises Despite Controls," Illawarra Mercury Oct. 28, 1998.
"Crime involving guns is on the rise despite tougher laws. The number of robberies with guns jumped 39% in 1997, while assaults involving guns rose 28% and murders by 19%." --"Gun crime soars," Morning Herald, Sydney, Oct. 28, 1998.
"Murders by firearms have actually increased (in Victoria) since the buyback scheme, which removed 225,000 registered and unregistered firearms from circulation. There were 18 shooting murders in 1996-97, after the buyback scheme had been introduced, compared with only six in 1995-1996 before the scheme started." --"Killings rise in gun hunt," Herald Sun, Melbourne, Dec. 23, 1998.
"Victoria is facing one of its worst murder tolls in a decade and its lowest arrest rate ever." --Herald Sun, Melbourne, Dec. 11, 1999.
"The environment is more violent and dangerous than it was some time ago." --South Australia Police Commissioner Mal Hyde, reported in The Advertiser, Adelaide, Dec. 23, 1999.
What was that other quote? Oh yes, "Guns cause crime like flies cause garbage."
Now mind you, I am career law enforcement, and would prefer to respond to a scene where a potential victim ended the life of an attacker rather than the reverse.
Posts: 203 | Location: New Mexico - The Land of Entrapment | Registered: May 12, 2006
Very pertinent. Adds another layer to the picture. Evidence points to the fact -- in Canada also -- that gun laws are ineffective. Quite troubling. Other solutions will have to be devised to reduce gun crimes which go more to the root of the problem. But I cannot believe - from my perspective - that encouraging citizens to arm themselves to the teeth will efficiently take care of the situation.
Which brings us then to another aspect : should countries (territories, regions, areas) with no gun culture and only marginal problems with gun crimes devellop a gun culture simply on the principle that there are some positive aspects to it in other places ? I don't think so.
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
I just like the idea of having the choice to own a firearm...not a government mandate saying I am forbidden. The same with smoking, seat belts, helmets, and the list goes on.
I detest the government as nanny. I am tired of the idea that "the government" knows what is best for you and will look out for you
And, Raven, I knew your avitar had military written all over it (sorry for ending a seentence in a preposition). Long live LRS's, LRRP's, Recon and the rest.
