I don't know about anybody else, but I am absolutely disgusted by the notion that there are publishing clearing houses out there who use and manipulate children with promises of wonderful incentives like candy and toys for the purposes of having these kids go out and act as salespeople. Who benefits? The clearing house. But at what cost? Why should kids go out in the street to hone their salesmanship as these companies dangle these things in front of them? Would it not be better for the kids to be in some academic, sport, religious, or whatever, activity that is some way beneficial?

How these companies get their foot in the door and make this happen is beyond me. Why a middle-school/jr. high school would allow this to happen on school time is beyond me.

Anyone else find this odd? I mean...think of all the money you would save and could spend on cigars...and the worst thing is, they don't even include Cigar Aficionado or Wine Spectator!

I agree. I think that most of these companies get the kids through the schools by sharing the revenue with the schools. Company goes to principal and says "Hey, we've got a great fundraisng program for your school (not to mention us). Get you kids to sign up to sell subscriptions to these great magazines and we'll give you a (microscopic) cut of the money raised. You can even have the kids compete against each other and we'll give (some worthless) prizes to the winners." Pretty soon the kids are pestering neighbors and relatives in an attempt to help their school. Actually, the magazine subscription racket is a bit outdated. The new deal is Xmas wrapping paper. Ever get an e-mail like this: "My daughter/grandaughter/neice is selling holiday wrapping paper this year to raise money for her school, Our Lady of Perpetual Motion. Please sign a Purchase Order located on the tables in the kitchen, every conference room and on the walls above the urinals in the mens' room. I will come around tomorrow to pick up you check."

Government schools, for the most part. These schools are run by people who are more interested in social issues than teaching kids how to read, write and do basic math-- are you surprised that for a few more dollars (don't even get me started at how we throw money at the "education problem") they will allow this?



OK, I'm feeling better now that I got that off my chest.

I'm not sure about the schools around you guys, but the high school that my mom works at actually gets a decent amount of money from these fund raisers. Don't get me wrong, I dont think that these companies do it because they want to be good citizens, they definatly make money on the deal. That is just the "American" way. Maybe it just a way to make some money with out just asking people to write a check.

As far as the "throwing money" at educational problems, I don't think that there is any money being thrown. If anything there need to be more money or at least a better distribution of the money that is in the system already. Here in Grand Rapids, MI a child at an inner city school recieves 5500 dollars less than a child from the suburbs. Many of these schools dont have books for their students and often the books they have are outdated. I'm not saying that the money is the only issue, but it is definatly one of the issues. There definatly needs to be school reforms in this country.

Alright I'll step down off of my soap box now. This is just something I am passionate about.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, as they say.

Actually, I also have relatives in education, one of which taught in both the public schools in MI and at the U of M. Take a look at the federal speding numbers on education, and I think you'll find that we spend more and more every year, while basic skills remain deplorable.

But we could both be right, right? Perhaps the problem is where the money is being spent, and on what.

I think that we are both right. I think the system has some huge flaws and one can't just point a finger at one thing in particular and say that it is the only problem.

Just one final thing (maybe). IMAO, the problem is lack of choice. We have no choice about paying taxes, and most can't afford to pay twice for the education of their children by sending them to a non-government school. Those inner-city children you speak of have nowhere else to go-- and what happens in any business where the customers have no choice regarding suppliers? Prices stay high while service stays low; this is just a fact of life where there is no real competition for customers.

I think you might be saying things backwards, JR...but you have a very valid point...

in MI, per pupil funding is set by Prop. A (at $6400 per student, might be $6,700 now), passed a couple of years back...there is a minimum per student funding...in your area, and many others, suburban school distircts have added to that base with mils...

so the inner city schools don't receive $5500 less, it's that the others generate $5500 more...the problems with the inner city schools is the declining enrollment, and their low attendences during "count days," and the biggie is that inner city schools suffer cause they don't have a surrounding tax base to generate additional revenue...and please let's not open that pandora's box of social issues on how to make inner cities better...

but, that's where the magazine sales, or wrapping paper, or candy (in my old elememtary school) helped out...the schools do, or did at least, get a nice chunk of $$ for participation...along with vending machines, adverrtisements, etc...but at what cost to kids.

I think the first step is to manage administrative costs, and then to take a look at the high salaries of bad teachers and the low salaries of the good ones...balance it out and you'll see an improvement...

there's my 2 cents in what appaears to be one of the most civil discussions i have seen lately...thanks for the good conversation...

jag

I realize it's a way to raise revenue, but they take the kids out of class, put some slick salesman up there who dangles carrots of these 'great prizes' in front of them, and the kids come out charged to go sell, sell, sell!! Wait...what about schoolwork? Are the schools sending the wrong message just to get a few bucks? I remember having to explain the economics to my son. For the entire week, the kids weren't concentrating on school or activities...they wanted the prizes, each trying to outsell the other, hustling to neighborhood targets before their friends did. My son was disappointed that I was not going to support his 'winning' a prize he thought was nice, but the lesson learned really stuck with him. These clearing houses play these kids, the entire school systems, like saps! And it really just rubs me the wrong way.

If every family in the school gave $20 per student in their household, I think the benefit to the school would be about the same. I just don't want my kids subjected as they are to commercials like that. But wait! Act now and receive TWO magazines!! Not only that, if you sell, sell, sell, more, more, more, you get an extra 1/2 hour for nutrition to do whatever it is you want while your classmates are studying Geometry. It would be a great time to smoke a joint, have an Old English 800...learn how to REALLY live the life of a salesman!

I didn't like the idea of my children soliciting from what amounted to family, neighbors, and even worse co-workers. I would call the PTA or whomever and ask what the average profit per kid was and write a check to the PTA for the same amount and be done with it.

So these clearing houses are NATIONWIDE, enticing our kids to pimp their product under the guise of school fundraising.

I have a better idea. Middle school kids should invest in drugs...marijuana, cocaine, maybe some speed...snort the first part for that little extra pick-me-up in the wee hours of the morning that kids these days must endure because of so many holidays and the overall hourly requirements, and then everybody sell a gram, or whatnot. There's a TON of profit, everybody is having fun (a LOT more fun than a magazine, anyway), the speech by the middleman could just be a video of any Dave Chappelle show, or Snoop-Dog, and it would give the kids a real sense of independence. And the schools win, too!

How about it. Who's with me. Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO!

Now, if they can get discount "educational pricing" on quality cigars and start peddling them in the neighborhood...