[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jack White: No reasonable person can suggest that Sen. Obama had ever fallen under Dr. Wright's spell, would carry his attitudes into the White House or is politically influenced by him in any way. Obama has brilliantly and eloquently put an end to any such speculation with a political speech that ranks among the best. Only the Presleys of the world will continue to claw at the the open sore that is racial division in America in their attempt to keep the hatred alive. [QUOTE]
So basically you are retracting the statement I quoted above. That you would be disappointed and surprised if he lied about hearing the statements? You know, you pride yourself on your intellect Jack however, you seem to be lacking in it. The whole point is that Senator Obama lied and then later said he had heard what Rev. Wright had said. Are you serious? You're going to post a quote to some generic article? A speech that ranks among the best? No, it did not. It proves once again that Senator Obama is great while reading a prepared speech but not answering questions. It also shows you are naive and enjoy having the wool pulled over your eyes. You're dodging the question and not "engaging elected officials critically". You really disappoint me. I figured you to be a stand-up guy. The question is not just whether Obama believes the venom his pastor spews, it's why he tolerated hearing it for 20 years and also allows his children to hear it. You are revealing your own double-standard. So, the question remains. Senator Obama lied, are you "surprised and disappointed"?
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
"For 20 years, Barack has attended Wright's church, listened to his weekly sermons, entertained him in his home. Yet, says Barack, he never heard any racist rants at church, nor was he aware that Wright held so poisoned a view of his country."
In fact, this has not proved to be credible.
Rightly or wrongly, this will inlfuence the election. I don't think this is going away.
Posts: 1252 | Location: WI | Registered: November 16, 2007
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jack White: No reasonable person can suggest that Sen. Obama had ever fallen under Dr. Wright's spell, would carry his attitudes into the White House or is politically influenced by him in any way [QUOTE]
And no reasonable person can prove that he hasn't/won't. Sorry, that's a chance I'm sure Americans aren't going to be willing to take in November.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Originally posted by Jack White: Obama has brilliantly and eloquently put an end to any such speculation with a political speech that ranks among the best.
LOL, really Jack?
The real controversy was never if Obama subscribed to Wright's politics. The real question was always if Obama knew all this time...and if he did, why didn't he leave the church? I'm sorry, but expecting the rev to retire is not a satisfactory reason for Obama to stay in the church for so long.
I did not read to many posts above..cuz it was way to much reading about politics..i'm not that big on politics..BUT...let me put it to you this way..before Obamas preacher or what ever the hell you call that dude started runnin his pie hole i thought he had a slight chance to win vs Hill Dog..but NOW you guys say what you want...but you know as well as i do Obama ain't got a snowballs chance in hell...
Take this however you want but i think you guys can read between the lines...
Posts: 1034 | Location: THE BUCKEYE STATE | Registered: June 24, 2007
Originally posted by cigdogg: I did not read to many posts above..cuz it was way to much reading about politics..i'm not that big on politics..BUT...let me put it to you this way..before Obamas preacher or what ever the hell you call that dude started runnin his pie hole i thought he had a slight chance to win vs Hill Dog..but NOW you guys say what you want...but you know as well as i do Obama ain't got a snowballs chance in hell...
Take this however you want but i think you guys can read between the lines...
Agreed, I believe with Obama's chances, so went the democratic party's. I believe it is evident John McCain will be President. Still have a ways to go though.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Originally posted by cigdogg: Even if Obama beats Hill Dog he won't win Ohio in the general election...
Name the last president to be elected or re-elected WITHOUT winning in The Buckeye State????????
Mccain in 08...
The dems have done it again. Imploded. Now the party is divided among racial lines. Don't get me wrong, they still could win, however, this is increasingly unlikely.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
I haven't followed this thread or read it all that closely either due to time constraints. My problem is more that Obama claims that not only was he his minister but that he was a mentor to him. That alone speaks volumes of his character.
And it's good to know the new Black Panther Party is endorsing Obama, obviously thier endorsement means a lot to him. It's proudly displayed on his webite.
To top it all off, he said this about Don Imus last year?
Obama — who in a major speech Tuesday decried controversial remarks by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. dating back to 2001 — called for Imus to be fired just one week after Imus made the remarks in April 2007, two months after Obama had announced his candidacy.
“There’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude,” Obama told ABC News in an April 11 interview.
Can you say hypocrite?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Presley,
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
i just have one question for all the liberal democrats out there.how long would it take for you guys to call for the immediate resigination of a conservative candidate if he had ties to a racisist member of the clergy? such as rev wright? or whomever? my guess is you would all trip over each other calling for his head.
Originally posted by bklynkid: i just have one question for all the liberal democrats out there.how long would it take for you guys to call for the immediate resigination of a conservative candidate if he had ties to a racisist member of the clergy? such as rev wright? or whomever? my guess is you would all trip over each other calling for his head.
Yup, unfortunately it seems that at least one of them here has proven that he is not a man of his word in a sense. If I were wrong and it were clearly in writing, I'd admit it. Jack White said clearly in the above referenced posts that we should give Senator Obama the chance to explain himself and that he'd be "surprised and disappointed" if Senator Obama lied when he said he hadn't heard Pastor Wright's hate filled rhetoric. Now that Senator Obama is on the record lying about the situation to save his campaign, Jack will not acknowledge that Senator Obama plainly lied as well as attempted to mislead the voters. It's really sad, many here looked at Jack White as a stand-up guy, even if he is a liberal. However, it seems he has proved otherwise here. If you read the thread from the beginning, Jack defends Senator Obama throughout the whole beginning of the thread, now that he is caught in a lie, Jack would rather hide than post that he was clearly naive to beleive Obama's initial statement and admit that the proposed messiah of the democratic party is a proven liar and to many a bigot, one who judges based on skin color. Funny, everyone pictures the republicans as the bigoted party, clearly people see who is bigoted now. If anyone believes the speech Obama gave will make a difference, clearly it will not. His decline in the polls continues since the speech,not to mention that the majority of voters did not see the speech bacause they were working. Most people only saw a ten second clip. Bklykid, clearly you are correct, if this was a republican, his campaign would be over and the media would not relent until they destroyed his/her campaign.
"Question authority (if they are conservative),Think for yourself (unless you are liberal). Filter out the spin (unless it's the liberal agenda). Engage elected officials critically(if they are the Bush Administration). Excuse liberals who lie for your vote. Derive the truth, as long as it coincides with the liberal agenda. Speak B.S. to power, then hide when your candidates begin to sink in their lies"-What Jack White seems to believe.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Y'know, Presley, the silence wouldn't be so deafening if you ever managed to raise your level of discourse above that of an angry adolescent. (for the record, I have the same complaint about Jeebus - if I didn't know better, I'd think that the two of you were actually the same person just trolling the board for responses)
Obama has some explaining to do, but I don't think that his campaign is dead or that the crisis of the moment necessarily ensures a Republican victory in November. Could happen, but it's too early to tell.
I haven't cast my vote yet, so I'm interested in watching what happens, and in listening to what each of the candidates says, what they do, who they choose as running mate and etc.
I'm also interested in hearing Jack's take on things - but I don't feel the need to insult him on those occasions when we disagree.
So many cigars, so little time...
Posts: 1987 | Location: South of the Mason/Dixon Line | Registered: September 24, 2007
Obama should be a Pastor. He could have used his racial speech (didn't he say he had wanted to make that speech a long time ago?) to help end hate. Not promote it like his mentor was busy doing. Then Obama could have been the next MLK instead of president.
Posts: 1016 | Location: Long Island, NY | Registered: July 28, 2007
I used to hear vitriol directed against jews, catholics and non-whites from otherwise decent folk in white churches. They were giving voice to their own fears and insecurities by directing them against an easily-identified "other".
I've heard the same sort of things from black preachers, directed against whites (and still, sometimes, jews and catholics).
In each case, I recognize it as an attempt to avoid responsibility for their own failings, or to redirect anger to a handy target.
Neither case is right, justifiable or defensible. Mindless discrimination and bigotry is wrong, no matter what your race, religion or creed.
It is small-minded and shows a lack of critical thought and intelligence to use that too-wide brush to paint an entire group based on the actions or ideas of a few. Bigotry blinds us to the things that we all have in common, and prevents us from seeing the "other" as completely human.
I'd like to see both the liberal and conservative camps use a bit more critical thought and intelligence in their remarks, whether in defending their own side or attacking the other.
So many cigars, so little time...
Posts: 1987 | Location: South of the Mason/Dixon Line | Registered: September 24, 2007
Did Wright actually make racist statements, or were they anti-American statements? That is, did he call out whites (or Jews or whomever), or did he stick with saying "God damn America" and trafficking in that sort of vitriol. I know he mentions Zionists oppressing the Palestinians, but this is, arguably, different from anti-Semitism.
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"Live every week like it's Shark Week."
Posts: 1459 | Location: New York/Denver | Registered: August 05, 2005
Originally posted by CrazyPoet: Y'know, Presley, the silence wouldn't be so deafening if you ever managed to raise your level of discourse above that of an angry adolescent. (for the record, I have the same complaint about Jeebus - if I didn't know better, I'd think that the two of you were actually the same person just trolling the board for responses)
Obama has some explaining to do, but I don't think that his campaign is dead or that the crisis of the moment necessarily ensures a Republican victory in November. Could happen, but it's too early to tell.
I haven't cast my vote yet, so I'm interested in watching what happens, and in listening to what each of the candidates says, what they do, who they choose as running mate and etc.
I'm also interested in hearing Jack's take on things - but I don't feel the need to insult him on those occasions when we disagree.
Yeeah, thanks...
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Originally posted by Scottological: Did Wright actually make racist statements, or were they anti-American statements? That is, did he call out whites (or Jews or whomever), or did he stick with saying "God damn America" and trafficking in that sort of vitriol. I know he mentions Zionists oppressing the Palestinians, but this is, arguably, different from anti-Semitism.
No, he made racially offensive statements. He accused the white government of manufacturing AIDS to kill off colored people. He also had a website promoting the churches "black values system". Now, that black values system may sound harmless enough, however, reverse it. Say McCain was going to a church that promoted the "white values system" for 20+ years. The media would go crazy. Pastor Wright also said Jesus was a poor black man killed off by the rich white peeeeooopppllee(the romans)!
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our
