quote:

It doesn't even matter if Obama has been influenced by him.

Of course it matters.

quote:

Obama needs to cut this guy from him like a gangrenous toe.

That would be the politically expedient thing to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack White:
Of course it matters.

No jack, it doesn't. The association is already there: 20 years in Wright's congregation. Whether Obama fully subscribes to Wright's beliefs, or not at all, will never really be known with 100% certainty.

People will make their decisions based on how Obama decides to treat his relationship with Wright from here on...whether or not Obama believes is totally irrelevant to how the public will decide.

quote:

No jack, it doesn't. The association is already there: 20 years in Wright's congregation. Whether Obama fully subscribes to Wright's beliefs, or not at all, will never really be known with 100% certainty.

Yes, Sobek, it does. In the rest, you're mistaken. In my opinion.

By the way, Obama very publicly stated his church publication (The Trumpet) was wrong to give that award to Farrakhan you mentioned in an earlier post.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack White:
Yes, Sobek, it does. In the rest, you're mistaken. In my opinion.

Sorry Jack, but you are being extremely naive...either that, or you are putting your head in the sand by refusing to accept the obvious.. Guilty by association...ever hear of it? In this case, a mentor and 20 year association that ties into religion as well.

quote:

By the way, Obama very publicly stated his church publication (The Trumpet) was wrong to give that award to Farrakhan you mentioned in an earlier post.

I was aware that he did. I mentioned that because you seem to imply that maybe Wright did not preach politics within his own church (not that it even matters) and thus didn't expose Obama to his views.

quote:

Sorry Jack, but you are being extremely naive...either that, or you are putting your head in the sand by refusing to accept the obvious.. Guilty by association...ever hear of it? In this case, a mentor and 20 year association that ties into religion as well.

Sobek, I know as a conservative you'll be disinclined to accept this from Barak Obama, but I offer it, nonetheless. This is just out on both CNN and MSNBC.

"Barack Obama said Friday he categorically denounces some of his Chicago minister's past sermons, calling them "inflammatory and appalling."

"I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy.

I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies," he added. "I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue."

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation ... Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. He has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn."

Consider it or not. You're free to begin the "well, of course he's going to say that."

If John McCain had belonged to a church whose pastor was friends with known members of the KKK, it would be all over the media right now.
Obama is getting a pass because he is a liberal and because he is black. Obama attended this mans church for 20+ yeras. Also, perhaps you do not know but Obama has given large sums of money to this church including a $20k+ donation last year. Obama will never get elected with all of this which will leave the dems in a sort of catch-22. Obama will most likely lead by pledged delagates, if the superdelegates give it to Hillary, it will be 1968 all over again and blacks will sit on their hands come Novemeber or even vote McCain. However, if Obama gets the nomination, he will clearly be very hard to elect once this hits mainstream press and groups like the swiftboat vets start airing these soundbites in commercials.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack White:
Sobek, I know as a conservative you'll be disinclined to accept this from Barak Obama, but I offer it, nonetheless. This is just out on both CNN and MSNBC.

Just because I do not agree with ultra liberals, does not make me conservative. Truth be known, I would prefer Obama to win the election.

I think this is a good start, but he still defends his relationship with the guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack White:

quote:

Sorry Jack, but you are being extremely naive...either that, or you are putting your head in the sand by refusing to accept the obvious.. Guilty by association...ever hear of it? In this case, a mentor and 20 year association that ties into religion as well.

Sobek, I know as a conservative you'll be disinclined to accept this from Barak Obama, but I offer it, nonetheless. This is just out on both CNN and MSNBC.

"Barack Obama said Friday he categorically denounces some of his Chicago minister's past sermons, calling them "inflammatory and appalling."

"I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy.

I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies," he added. "I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue."

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation ... Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. He has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn."

Consider it or not.

Jack, actions speak louder than words. Obama attended this church with this pastor for 20+ years. This means in some respect he must agree with that pastor. He not only looks on him as a pastor but calls him his mentor. Now, if my pastor said anything like any of those comments, I'd be out of the church immediately. Any country loving, God-fearing American would I do believe. What Senator Obama said is not gonna wash, you can't erase 20+ years with a couple paragraphs of words.
Couple this with what Obama's wife said about how she is now "proud of my country for the first time in my life" and it's all starting to make sense. Best case scenario for your party is these two are wackos, worst case scenario is that the Obama's are bigoted and very dangerous.

quote:

Obama attended this church with this pastor for 20+ years. This means in some respect he must agree with that pastor.

It means no such thing. No one with any kind of spiritual foundation for his life, or has had a relationship with a pastoral mentor, would make any kind of statement like that.

If you think Obama is lying in his statement and agrees with all Dr. Wrignt has been saying, as I know you do, just say so.

As an aside, it's interesting how you use "country-loving" and "God-fearing" as synonyms, and at the same time imply Sen. Obama is neither.

quote:

he still defends his relationship with the guy.

He explains his relationship with Dr. Wright as a pastoral one, and stated he never heard him express those views, either from the pulpit or in private conversation. I don't understand how that's tantamount to a "defense", if one were needed.

In an interview quoted in that NY Times article to which I posted a link, he said he'd never had a political conversation with his pastor.

My roast chicken is now overcooked, and it's all your fault.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack White:

quote:

Obama attended this church with this pastor for 20+ years. This means in some respect he must agree with that pastor.

It means no such thing. No one with any kind of spiritual foundation for his life, or has had a relationship with a pastoral mentor, would make any kind of statement like that.

If you think Obama is lying in his statement and agrees with all Dr. Wrignt has been saying, as I know you do, just say so.

As an aside, it's interesting how you use "country-loving" and "God-fearing" as synonyms, and at the same time imply Sen. Obama is neither.

Jack, I know you can't be as naive as you pretend to be when you are wrong. If this pastors personal views were not part of his thought expressed from the pulpit, then you may be right. However, it is now proven fact that this pastor has used his pulpit to spread his extremist views. Anyone here that attends church regulary, please chime in, if your pastor said after 9/11 that we were at fault and also said "God d*mn America" repeatedly-would you stick around? Jack, you are clearly wrong here and grasping at straws. BTW, you are correct, I do not believe Obama. If he did not agree with his pastors extremist views, he would have distanced himself from them long ago.
BTW-as to your aside...let's stay on topic. What part of the pastors words do you believe Senator Obama agrees with?

quote:

Originally posted by Jack White:

quote:

he still defends his relationship with the guy.

He explains his relationship with Dr. Wright as a pastoral one, and stated he never heard him express those views, either from the pulpit or in private conversation. I don't understand how that's tantamount to a "defense", if one were needed.

In an interview quoted in that NY Times article to which I posted a link, he said he'd never had a political conversation with his pastor.

My roast chicken is now overcooked, and it's all your fault.

Either Obamas lying or he's lying...
Here's an interesting article that pretty much makes it hard to believe Senator Obama has never had a political conversation w his pastor, especially considering his pastor works for his campaign. Are you really that naive Jack?

Obama's Spiritual Mentor: "Hillary Ain't Never Been Called a N-----"
March 13, 2008 9:39 AM

On Good Morning America this a.m., Brian Ross took a look (watch HERE) at Obama's pastor at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who retired last month.

Wright in one 2003 sermon said of the treatment of African-Americans by the U.S., "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strikes law and then wants us to sing 'God bless America,' No, no, no, not 'God bless America,' God damn America -- that's in the Bible, you're killing innocent people, God damn America for treating us citizens as less than human."

After 9/11, Wright said, "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagaski and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye...America's chickens are coming home to roost."

"I don't think that my church is actually particularly controversial," Obama has said.

In THIS CLIP which ran on Fox News last night, Wright talks about Obama being hated because he "doesn't fit the model -- he ain't white, he ain't rich, and he ain't privileged."

Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, Wright says, fits the mold.

"Hillary never had a cab whiz past her and not pick her up because her skin was the wrong color," Wright says. "Hillary never had to worry about being pulled over in her car as a black man driving in the wrong...I am sick of negroes who just do not get it. Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single parent home, Barack was. Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a n-----."

When asked about these kinds of comments in the past, Obama spokesman Bill Burton has said that "Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they’re offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church."

Burton told Fox News that “Senator Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Senator Obama deeply disagrees.”

But is it true that Obama doesn't think of Wright in political terms?

Last December, Obama's campaign issued a press release in which Wright was listed as a national leader of the Obama campaign's "African American Religious Leadership Committee."

That's pretty political.

Should Obama denounce Wright's language, his sentiments, and allow him to remain on his campaign committee? What do you think?

- jpt

What's wrong in saying that 911 was an inevitable result of decades of unjust and double standard American policies in the Middle East??
This is the truth as a matter of fact, and only a delusional would not see it.

Plus, the USA has bred Islamic extremism to fight off the Soviet influence, now it backfired.

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
What's wrong in saying that 911 was an inevitable result of decades of unjust and double standard American policies in the Middle East??
This is the truth as a matter of fact, and only an idiot would not see it.

Lucky,
Your not even worth addressing so I won't bother.

quote:

Originally posted by Presley:

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
What's wrong in saying that 911 was an inevitable result of decades of unjust and double standard American policies in the Middle East??
This is the truth as a matter of fact, and only an idiot would not see it.

Lucky,
Your not even worth addressing so I won't bother.

Why?
Because I don't comply with your "good citizen" check list?

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
What's wrong in saying that 911 was an inevitable result of decades of unjust and double standard American policies in the Middle East??
This is the truth as a matter of fact, and only a delusional would not see it.

Plus, the USA has bred Islamic extremism to fight off the Soviet influence, now it backfired.

The only thing obvious to me is that Egypt screwed up and lost Palestinians more land in 1967.

Hopefully one day Israel takes over Egypt as well.

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

quote:

Originally posted by Presley:

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
What's wrong in saying that 911 was an inevitable result of decades of unjust and double standard American policies in the Middle East??
This is the truth as a matter of fact, and only an idiot would not see it.

Lucky,
Your not even worth addressing so I won't bother.

Why?
Because I don't comply with your "good citizen" check list?

Don't be mad at the United States because your people can't fight. Israel took their land and I hope they take Egypt as well. Eventually I hope they exterminate all the terrorists and Jihadists who think and reason with the same limited knowledge you apparently have. The weaker are destined to fall, don't be mad. Practice your english and perhaps learn Hebrew.

quote:

Originally posted by sobek:

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
What's wrong in saying that 911 was an inevitable result of decades of unjust and double standard American policies in the Middle East??
This is the truth as a matter of fact, and only a delusional would not see it.

Plus, the USA has bred Islamic extremism to fight off the Soviet influence, now it backfired.

The only thing obvious to me is that Egypt screwed up and lost Palestinians more land in 1967.

Hopefully one day Israel takes over Egypt as well.

Eh...does this has anything to do with the current discussion, or are you just sore so you started bringing up irrelevant issues??
You know this is exactly like children.