I am proud to be from Alabama. I am also proud of my Great Grandfathers service fighting for States rights as a member of General Forrest's unit.

Does this make me a traitor or a racist? After all my military service and deployments? My military record speaks for its self.

Now I do fly a flag outside my house, an Amarican flag. The same flag I defended and fought for in 3 wars, one war 3 tours, one war includes Afghanistan and Iraq, and then there was Bosnia and all those hurricane, tornado, and ice/snow storms I was called upon tho help with security and disaster recovery. Ohhhh not to mention there is now talk of my unit being deployed AGAIN to help secure our southern border. I have served in both the Regular Army and the ALABAMA Army National Guard. My Guard unit's history goes way back to before the Civil War and fought on the Confederate side. Does this make us traitors? Tell that to the guys in my unit that fought in Afghanistan and Iraq..

I now have 27 years of both active service and service in the Guard. I am no traitor!

True General Forrest started the KKK. However the KKK he organized was NOT the racist KKK we know today. During the brutal reconstruction years after the Civil War there was little to no law enforcement. The KKK that Gen Forrest started was a vigalanty force that maintained law and order and targeted thugs and criminals that were victomizing folks. Years later when he was not involved with the KKK and it turned to a racial organization he openly denounced and condemed it for what it had become.

To me Gen Forrest was the greatest General of the war if not ever in American history. I admire and respect him for what he did as a General. He started the war as a private with no formal military training and and no formal education. He ended the war as a LtGen even though almost all General Officers on both sides were West Point Graduates. He developed what would now be Mechanized Infantry. He commanded a Calavlry unit but only used the horses to menouver his unit then dissmounted and fought as Infantry. No other commander in the world at that time fought this way and he never lost a battle.

Years after the Civil War was over General Robert E. Lee was asked other than himself who he thought was the greatest General on either side was. General Lee responded by saying it was a General he had never met, General Nathan Bedford Forrest. Gen Forrest fought on the western front and General Lee in the East.

I am an American first and above all else, howerver I am also from the south and proud of that fact. This does not make me a traitor to our country nor does it make me anti-black, a racist, or supportive of segragation. The Confederate flag represents our past and our culture and has nothing to do with racism or Slavery. The Civil War was NOT about slavery but about states rights and was against an ever growing in trusive federal government.

I have a tattoo on my upper arm I got 25 years ago it has US Paratrooper wings and a confederate flag. This does not make me a racist nor a traitor.

Many of the Army National Guard Units have a confederate flag on their unit crest and a confederate battle streamer on their unit colors due to their unit history of fighing for the South during the Civil War. Most of these units also have battle sreamers from WWI, WWII, Korea, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and Iraq. We are proud of our units and unit history and are not traitors and racists.

Its time for the Political Correct do gooders to get over it and find some other issue to fight for.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raven35031,

quote:

Originally posted by kdhoffma:
Come on guys, don't be so hard on this guy. I agree with him that it sucks that a state names parks/creates sculptures/and glorifies a man that wanted to rid this country of all the blacks/immigrants/jews/catholics. I think what OMR is getting at is that if he purchases CAO cigars, then his money goes to pay taxes to the state of Tennesee.

I do believe that Tennesee is in the wrong here. We are not talking about statues erected 100 years ago, but rather in the past ten years: http://www.tennessee-scv.org/camp28/Equestrian_Statue.html
Also, this guy has more statues in Tennesee than any of the three US presidents from Tennesee. Thats f*cked up.

However, I do agree that if OMR held every state up to the same rigorous standards, he would end up boycotting all 50 of them.

Oh, and don't cry about affirmative action. I too had great test scores, perfect grades, etc... I'm also white, and did not receive any scholarships, and I'm currently paying off ridiculous student loans. But in the end I'm thankful that (unlike millions of people in this country) I had the opportunity to goto college. I'm also thankful that I went to a diverse public university. I personally support affirmative action and consider it favoritism that helps to counter balance 100's of years of segregation and oppresion in this country. It's checks and balances! If you want to argue that its unconstitutional, then I'd love to discuss it with you and listen to your point of view. However, if you want to b*tch about what handouts you weren't given then I've got better things to do.

You too need to know real history before you say this man had the same sentiments as the members of the organization he founded evolved into some sixty or so years later. As I pointed out before & Raven explained further, when the Klan was formed it had nothing to do with hating Jews, Blacks, Catholics, etc.

You people who don't know history at all are totally amazing!

I don't cut racists or bigots any slack no matter what their color or place of birth on this planet. And that's exactly what you & what's him name are doing, by judging a person & group of people by a misinformed, sterotyping, history twisting....I'll stop there before I use better descriptive names.

quote:

Originally posted by Bones:
Alot of guilt out there. Mostly white.

Of course, the obligatory "white man is the devil" remark.
Your conclusion that guilt is driving force behind the remarks being made is also ignorant. Optimus made a stupid comment based on very flawed reasoning so people are telling him just how stupid it was.

quote:

Originally posted by punched:



You too need to know real history before you say this man had the same sentiments as the members of the organization he founded evolved into some sixty or so years later. As I pointed out before & Raven explained further, when the Klan was formed it had nothing to do with hating Jews, Blacks, Catholics, etc.

You people who don't know history at all are totally amazing!

I don't cut racists or bigots any slack no matter what their color or place of birth on this planet. And that's exactly what you & what's him name are doing, by judging a person & group of people by a misinformed, sterotyping, history twisting....I'll stop there before I use better descriptive names.

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by TPSO:
...
Second, You should join the NAACP(another racist org.). They like taking civil war monuments down, and trying their best to erase history. For good or bad, history is what it is. Let it be.
...

The thing that bothers me is not the historical statues, but the statues that have been erected over the past couple of decades. I would never support the destruction of historical artifacts. Who here would be opposed to Rome putting up a statue next to Coliseum which depicted a Christian being torn to pieces with an Emperor viewing the spectacle with an approving smile. Or how about this, why don't we put up a statue of Oswald with a rifle leaning out of the window of the book depository in Dallas, that would have historical value.

I think it interesting that anyone would want to boycott a company because their headquarters are in a specific location.

How about something a but more humanistic, like because the owners are Turkish, and the Turks attempted a Genocide on the Armenians...and almost succeeded. Not much public outcry about that, not to mention the active denial of it to this day. Let me repeat that, to this day the Turkish government denys that the Ottoman Empire attempted to inilate the Armenians.

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by Blueorb:

quote:

Originally posted by Bones:
Alot of guilt out there. Mostly white.

Of course, the obligatory "white man is the devil" remark.
Your conclusion that guilt is driving force behind the remarks being made is also ignorant. Optimus made a stupid comment based on very flawed reasoning so people are telling him just how stupid it was.

Ignorant? Actually I was thinking of OMR and many other Boycotters. I don't see much in boycotting something, (or somewhere) for some injustice of the pass, real or not.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bones,

I dunno, reading up on the creation of the KKK doesn't seem to validate it being a positive group when it was founded. The second group (founded in 1915) was more overtly racist, but the first wasn't exactly kosher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

quote:

Originally posted by Bones:

quote:

Originally posted by Blueorb:

quote:

Originally posted by Bones:
Alot of guilt out there. Mostly white.

Of course, the obligatory "white man is the devil" remark.
Your conclusion that guilt is driving force behind the remarks being made is also ignorant. Optimus made a stupid comment based on very flawed reasoning so people are telling him just how stupid it was.

Ignorant? Actually I was thinking OMR and many other Boycotters. I don't see much in boycotting something, (or somewhere) for some injustice of the pass, real or not.

I wasn't sure so didn't comment one way or the other but I leaned toward your meaning was that OMR was doing some hand wringing because he happened to be white??

quote:

Originally posted by punched:

quote:

Originally posted by kdhoffma:
Come on guys, don't be so hard on this guy. I agree with him that it sucks that a state names parks/creates sculptures/and glorifies a man that wanted to rid this country of all the blacks/immigrants/jews/catholics. I think what OMR is getting at is that if he purchases CAO cigars, then his money goes to pay taxes to the state of Tennesee.

I do believe that Tennesee is in the wrong here. We are not talking about statues erected 100 years ago, but rather in the past ten years: http://www.tennessee-scv.org/camp28/Equestrian_Statue.html
Also, this guy has more statues in Tennesee than any of the three US presidents from Tennesee. Thats f*cked up.

However, I do agree that if OMR held every state up to the same rigorous standards, he would end up boycotting all 50 of them.

Oh, and don't cry about affirmative action. I too had great test scores, perfect grades, etc... I'm also white, and did not receive any scholarships, and I'm currently paying off ridiculous student loans. But in the end I'm thankful that (unlike millions of people in this country) I had the opportunity to goto college. I'm also thankful that I went to a diverse public university. I personally support affirmative action and consider it favoritism that helps to counter balance 100's of years of segregation and oppresion in this country. It's checks and balances! If you want to argue that its unconstitutional, then I'd love to discuss it with you and listen to your point of view. However, if you want to b*tch about what handouts you weren't given then I've got better things to do.

You too need to know real history before you say this man had the same sentiments as the members of the organization he founded evolved into some sixty or so years later. As I pointed out before & Raven explained further, when the Klan was formed it had nothing to do with hating Jews, Blacks, Catholics, etc.

You people who don't know history at all are totally amazing!

I don't cut racists or bigots any slack no matter what their color or place of birth on this planet. And that's exactly what you & what's him name are doing, by judging a person & group of people by a misinformed, sterotyping, history twisting....I'll stop there before I use better descriptive names.

I think you're the one who needs to open a history book. The KKK may have been formed as a group of vigilantes, but they quickly deteriorated into a gang of thugs opposed to reconstruction. They used intimidation tactics (including violence and murder) against blacks/jews/catholics/imiigrants until their destruction in the 1870's by President Grant.

Although General Forrest and other founders of the first KKK did leave and distance themselves from the KKK, they still are responsible due to their role in the group’s formation. I commend General Forrest for his public denouncement of the KKK. However, his image is forever associated with the Klan and as such I am personally opposed to erecting statues of him as they are seen by many as a glorification of this image.

However, all of your points are well taken. Should we be censoring the display of prominent historical figures just because of the negative image associated with them (even if the image was not entirely their fault)? I don't know.... very thought provoking.

quote:

Originally posted by kdhoffma:

quote:

Originally posted by punched:

quote:

Originally posted by kdhoffma:
Come on guys, don't be so hard on this guy. I agree with him that it sucks that a state names parks/creates sculptures/and glorifies a man that wanted to rid this country of all the blacks/immigrants/jews/catholics. I think what OMR is getting at is that if he purchases CAO cigars, then his money goes to pay taxes to the state of Tennesee.

I do believe that Tennesee is in the wrong here. We are not talking about statues erected 100 years ago, but rather in the past ten years: http://www.tennessee-scv.org/camp28/Equestrian_Statue.html
Also, this guy has more statues in Tennesee than any of the three US presidents from Tennesee. Thats f*cked up.

However, I do agree that if OMR held every state up to the same rigorous standards, he would end up boycotting all 50 of them.

Oh, and don't cry about affirmative action. I too had great test scores, perfect grades, etc... I'm also white, and did not receive any scholarships, and I'm currently paying off ridiculous student loans. But in the end I'm thankful that (unlike millions of people in this country) I had the opportunity to goto college. I'm also thankful that I went to a diverse public university. I personally support affirmative action and consider it favoritism that helps to counter balance 100's of years of segregation and oppresion in this country. It's checks and balances! If you want to argue that its unconstitutional, then I'd love to discuss it with you and listen to your point of view. However, if you want to b*tch about what handouts you weren't given then I've got better things to do.

You too need to know real history before you say this man had the same sentiments as the members of the organization he founded evolved into some sixty or so years later. As I pointed out before & Raven explained further, when the Klan was formed it had nothing to do with hating Jews, Blacks, Catholics, etc.

You people who don't know history at all are totally amazing!

I don't cut racists or bigots any slack no matter what their color or place of birth on this planet. And that's exactly what you & what's him name are doing, by judging a person & group of people by a misinformed, sterotyping, history twisting....I'll stop there before I use better descriptive names.

I think you're the one who needs to open a history book. The KKK may have been formed as a group of vigilantes, but they quickly deteriorated into a gang of thugs opposed to reconstruction. They used intimidation tactics (including violence and murder) against blacks/jews/catholics/imiigrants until their destruction in the 1870's by President Grant.

Although General Forrest and other founders of the first KKK did leave and distance themselves from the KKK, they still are responsible due to their role in the group’s formation. I commend General Forrest for his public denouncement of the KKK. However, his image is forever associated with the Klan and as such I am personally opposed to erecting statues of him as they are seen by many as a glorification of this image.

However, all of your points are well taken. Should we be censoring the display of prominent historical figures just because of the negative image associated with them (even if the image was not entirely their fault)? I don't know.... very thought provoking.

Are you running for office? First you say that I'm wrong and need to read a history book. Then a little bit later you agree with exactly what I said....geesh!!

quote:

Originally posted by El Mamerro:
I dunno, reading up on the creation of the KKK doesn't seem to validate it being a positive group when it was founded. The second group (founded in 1915) was more overtly racist, but the first wasn't exactly kosher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

Try reading up on General Forrest.

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool, then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

That being said here's where I stand the Klan is horrible, southern succession probably not the greatest idea in history, giving up your favorite smokes because they are produced in a state that at one point in time supported slavery....ridiculous.

I don't remember who wrote it earlier but I agree you do sound very self-righteous, and it seems you have a holier than thou attitude. And really aren't there worse things in this world you could jump up on your soapbox and preach about. Really man get a life.

quote:

Originally posted by punched:
Are you running for office? First you say that I'm wrong and need to read a history book. Then a little bit later you agree with exactly what I said....geesh!!

You love it, don't you!

I was disagreeing with you about the history of the KKK. From what I've read, the KKK was formed in the mid 1860's with General Forrest as a founding father. Within only a few years the group got out of control, and became a violent, intimidating gang. The KKK was then destroyed/disbanded (or forced underground) in the early 1870's by President Grant. The reemergence of the klan occured in 1915 following the "documentary" film the Birth of a Nation. So yes, General Forrest was some 50 years removed from the 2nd generation KKK. However, your post indicated that he was 50 years removed from a violent/intimidating/anti black/jew/catholic/immigrant KKK, which is not the case. There are plenty of historical accounts of violence/murder associated with the first gen KKK.

I will be forever fascinating by the Confederate sympathizers who constantly whitewash and legitimatize the actions of their rebellous, traitous, segregationist ancestors. It also fascinates why their so proud of rebellous, traitous, segregationist ancestors. It's analogus to a person being proud the fact that their grandfather was in Gestapo and helped load the trains to the camps. Anyway, that's another subject for another day.

The topic is very clear, very defined, and is in a nice little box. Should the state o Tennesse honor a man who started the infamous racist organization in the history of the country? The consenus on this board is yes.

Also it isn't about other southern states honoring their "heros." If the people in these communities are comfortable with that, it's fine by me. If you were to put all of the information out there, then take a poll most Americans would agree that the state Tennessee is out of line.

There's two of many political groups in Middle East. They perform such things as providing schools, free medical for it's supports, and providing charity work. These organizations are Hamas and Hezbollah. Despite the fact these organizations probably do more good, than harm, you can't negate the harm that they've done and will do. It's the same with Forrest and the Klan.

I had relatives on both sides during the Civil War -- I'm proud of them all and welcome it when people honor them -- Forrest was a great general -- so was Grant and Sherman -- If you don't want to buy CAO's for whatever reason thats your business -- But I have to agree with Raven -- BRUSH UP ON YOUR HISTORY!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. E.:
"It is better to be silent and thought a fool, then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

That being said here's where I stand the Klan is horrible, southern succession probably not the greatest idea in history, giving up your favorite smokes because they are produced in a state that at one point in time supported slavery....ridiculous.

I don't remember who wrote it earlier but I agree you do sound very self-righteous, and it seems you have a holier than thou attitude. And really aren't there worse things in this world you could jump up on your soapbox and preach about. Really man get a life.

Nice summation. Only one thing to add to OMR, since when does a person who wishes to keep historical facts accurate do they become a "confederate sympathizer"? Oh I know, it's when someone like you twists it around in your little head.

kdhoffma,
I beleive as soon as the Klan started being "no good", the general denounced them before the government stepped in.

That's all folks!