I have a deep seeded loathing for the Confederacy. The Confederacy came really closed to destroying America. If the Confederacy had been victorious, America would be a very different place.
I'll give the traitors a break on their actions before and during the Civil War as misguided as they were, Southerners felt they had a right to become a new nation. It's what happened AFTER THE WAR is what I have a problem with.
The racial problems that we have today in America stem directly from white people interfering and denying blacks to intergrate and assimilate into society. The same people that instituted segregation, were the same people who proudly fought on the side of the Confederacy in the Civil War.
Which brings us to the issue at hand. Back during the 2000 election, I was listening to Hannity and he was b*tching about how Al Gore was in support of the Stars and Bars being removed from the Capitol Grounds in South Carolina. Then Hannity asks why then Vice President Gore hasn't talked much about Nathan Bedford Forrest and the state park that's named after him in Gore's home state of Tennessee.
Nathan Bedford Forrest is regarded as one of the best generals of the Civil War, and as with Gen. Sherman would be by today's standards be regarded as a war criminal, but it's his actions after the war, that's troubling. He founded a fraternal organization that would later become what is known as the Klu Klux Klan.
One day I was in a bar, and I started to order some Jack Daniels. I really like Jack Daniels and for the longest, I've wanted to try Gentleman Jack, but I personally couldn't bring myself to purcahse a product that's manufactured in a state that regards the founder of an organization that's terrorized, disenfranchised, raped, and murder tens of thousands of people as some kind of hero. And organization that to this day still preaches hatred and discrimination.
I was reading a recent issue of CA and the article I was reading was about father and son teams in the cigar industry. I was going along in the article when I get got to the part when I read that CAO is headquarted, I think it was Nashville. The wind went out of my sails. To say I was severely disappointed was an understatement. The Brazilias from CAO are one of my two favorite smokes. A box of Brazilias were probably going to be the first box of cigars that I was going to buy when I eventually got a humidor.
To have all through the Southern United States these momunments to racist,slave holding traitors is disturbing enough as it is. but if people want to hold in high esteem their rebellous ancestors and elevate them to the level of demi-gods, go right head, but to justify that Nathan Forrest has a right to be in the Confederacy Pantheon, and to be honored with busts in the Tennesse Statehouse, statues, and a state park is not only absurd, but offensive. You can't call yourself a supporter of equal rights, yet feel the a man such as this should be honored. If the founder of the Nazi party was honored in such a fashion, this wouldn't even be an issue. That particular state or city would be boycotted into bankruptcy court.
In the end, I have to give up one of my two favorite cigars. I can't conciously support a company that's headquartered in a state that feels that the founder of the most imfamous racist group in America is a hero. Or am I being only sensitive?
P.S. To all you Confederacy sympathizers. Don't re-fight the Civil War and don't point to other instances of injustice. You don't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.
If I'm paying $20 for a cigar, it better be "contraband."
Posts: 208 | Location: Villa Regis, The Empreyan Heights | Registered: January 10, 2006
The Klan as I understand it did not start out as a racist group. Wasn't it in Indiana where the largest number of Klan members were when the Klan was at their biggest. Last time I checked Indiana was NOT a southern state.
Slaves were originally brought to the northern industrial cities but were judged not suited for the factory work but better suited for agricultural work in the south. There is just as much hatred & bigotry in northern states as in southern states. Always was and always will be.
The KKK was / is a gang gone bad just like the crips, the bloods, the 18th street gang, etc. It's stupid and racial supremacy motivated yes.
The KKK is a horrible group.
And you sir have posted a very ignorant and uninformed and opinionated and self righteous and very sorry post.
Posts: 1346 | Location: Back in Cigar City | Registered: April 30, 2004
No offense, bro, but that's just weird. The slaveholders and secessionists of Tennessee are all dead, every single one of them. The patriarch and founder of the CAO family was born in Turkey. They have nothing to do with one another. Sins do not live in the land any more than they're passed down from father to son.
I drink Stoli vodka and drive an Audi despite the fact that the Russians and the Germans both were not exactly kind to my family or "my people." The guy who distills the vodka and the guy who welded the doors on my car had nothing to do with what happened two generations ago.
_______________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week."
Posts: 1485 | Location: New York/Denver | Registered: August 05, 2005
Originally posted by Omipotens Maximus Rex: I have a deep seeded loathing for the Confederacy. The Confederacy came really closed to destroying America. If the Confederacy had been victorious, America would be a very different place.
I'll give the traitors a break on their actions before and during the Civil War as misguided as they were, Southerners felt they had a right to become a new nation. It's what happened AFTER THE WAR is what I have a problem with.
The racial problems that we have today in America stem directly from white people interfering and denying blacks to intergrate and assimilate into society. The same people that instituted segregation, were the same people who proudly fought on the side of the Confederacy in the Civil War.
Which brings us to the issue at hand. Back during the 2000 election, I was listening to Hannity and he was b*tching about how Al Gore was in support of the Stars and Bars being removed from the Capitol Grounds in South Carolina. Then Hannity asks why then Vice President Gore hasn't talked much about Nathan Bedford Forrest and the state park that's named after him in Gore's home state of Tennessee.
Nathan Bedford Forrest is regarded as one of the best generals of the Civil War, and as with Gen. Sherman would be by today's standards be regarded as a war criminal, but it's his actions after the war, that's troubling. He founded a fraternal organization that would later become what is known as the Klu Klux Klan.
One day I was in a bar, and I started to order some Jack Daniels. I really like Jack Daniels and for the longest, I've wanted to try Gentleman Jack, but I personally couldn't bring myself to purcahse a product that's manufactured in a state that regards the founder of an organization that's terrorized, disenfranchised, raped, and murder tens of thousands of people as some kind of hero. And organization that to this day still preaches hatred and discrimination.
I was reading a recent issue of CA and the article I was reading was about father and son teams in the cigar industry. I was going along in the article when I get got to the part when I read that CAO is headquarted, I think it was Nashville. The wind went out of my sails. To say I was severely disappointed was an understatement. The Brazilias from CAO are one of my two favorite smokes. A box of Brazilias were probably going to be the first box of cigars that I was going to buy when I eventually got a humidor.
To have all through the Southern United States these momunments to racist,slave holding traitors is disturbing enough as it is. but if people want to hold in high esteem their rebellous ancestors and elevate them to the level of demi-gods, go right head, but to justify that Nathan Forrest has a right to be in the Confederacy Pantheon, and to be honored with busts in the Tennesse Statehouse, statues, and a state park is not only absurd, but offensive. You can't call yourself a supporter of equal rights, yet feel the a man such as this should be honored. If the founder of the Nazi party was honored in such a fashion, this wouldn't even be an issue. That particular state or city would be boycotted into bankruptcy court.
In the end, I have to give up one of my two favorite cigars. I can't conciously support a company that's headquartered in a state that feels that the founder of the most imfamous racist group in America is a hero. Or am I being only sensitive?
P.S. To all you Confederacy sympathizers. Don't re-fight the Civil War and don't point to other instances of injustice. You don't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.
That has to be the single most ignorant, assinine and and misguided diatribe I have ever read. Boycotting companes because they are in a state that did someting (or didn't do someting) 200 hundred years ago?? You sir, are an idiot.
Posts: 218 | Location: NC | Registered: April 26, 2004
I love this anti-south sentiment, boycott everything... I think its a trip... I guess that means you can't go to Disney World, or to Myrtle Beach, or Virgina Beach. How are you going to explain that one to your kids?
This is just the drab that will continually push this country for more and more hatred. People fail to remember that Jim Crow did rule the South, but that was over 120 years ago. Schools have be de-segregated for 55 years. People also fail to realize that this Government has put in laws to "balance" out the injustices from over 160 years ago.
You see, by voicing a stupid opinion like that, you anger people who have been stuck in the middle. I graduated college 7 years ago. Had excellent grades going into school, a number of sports and an excellent SAT score, yet there were limited scholarships and financial aid thrown my way. There is no united caucasian college fund, so for me to go to school I put myself in hock, and saved every dime I made working full time during school. Now what im bitter about is the face that nobody who is alive in this country has owned, or was a slave at, yet people are always throwing around their "40 acres and a mule." Lets face it... We need to move on from the hatred of the past. Learn from it sure, but allow it to linger on and on, and we will cause all new kinds of hate.
While you're at it OMR, you need to boycott everything from California. The Outlaw Bikers started there & we know what they did for prostitution, drug dealing, extortion, murder, rape, etc.
Need we continue?
Note to self for future reference...do not debate or even respond to morons or moronic posts.
Posts: 1346 | Location: Back in Cigar City | Registered: April 30, 2004
I'm from California. I'm not saying that people should boycott the South for this asinine love and affinity for the Confederacy. Hell, I'm not saying that anybody should follow my lead.
My point is I've made a personal decision not to support companies that are headquartered in a state that think the founder of the Klu Klux Klan is great and cool guy.
In my opinion, by honoring a man who founded an organization that eventually became to epitomize everything that's wrong with America, Tennesee is by default condoning the Klan's methods, philosophy, and actions.
If I'm paying $20 for a cigar, it better be "contraband."
Posts: 208 | Location: Villa Regis, The Empreyan Heights | Registered: January 10, 2006
Originally posted by Omipotens Maximus Rex: I'm from California. I'm not saying that people should boycott the South for this asinine love and affinity for the Confederacy. Hell, I'm not saying that anybody should follow my lead.
My point is I've made a personal decision not to support companies that are headquartered in a state that think the founder of the Klu Klux Klan is great and cool guy.
In my opinion, by honoring a man who founded an organization that eventually became to epitomize everything that's wrong with America, Tennesee is by default condoning the Klan's methods, philosophy, and actions.
I meant Hell's Angles not Outlaws. I deeply loathe people from California whose former & possibly still current residents allowed a vile, ugly, hateful, murdering, racist group like the Hell's Angles to conduct business!
And while we're at it, I loathe a state that would convict or set free someone for committing a murder based on their race! Can you say O.J. Simpson?
Posts: 1346 | Location: Back in Cigar City | Registered: April 30, 2004
That's great, but there isn't any parks named after O.J. the guy that started The Outlaws, or Sonny Barber, ( founder of the Hell's Angels.) And like I said, you don't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.
If I'm paying $20 for a cigar, it better be "contraband."
Posts: 208 | Location: Villa Regis, The Empreyan Heights | Registered: January 10, 2006
This is a strange reason to boycott a company's products. Especially since I have never heard any member of the Ozgener family praise Forrest, the Confederacy, segregationist politics, etc.
It would be like me saying that I refuse to eat corn because much of the heartland voted for Bush. That's taking partisanship to ridiculous extremes. And in any event, the Civil War has been over for 141 years.
It reminds me of a history class I took in college, "Religion in the Old South." One student referred to the Civil War as "that war of yankee agression." Some people can really hold a grudge.
Beyond all that, you can't erase people or episodes from the historical record just because their actions are personally distasteful to you. Of course Forrest's role in the formation of the KKK is regrettable, but the man didn't create racism, and that problem doesn't magically disappear just because you choose not to talk about it. As others have stated, you would find the same racial attitudes throughout the rank-and-file of the Union army. And it's just unfair to impose 20th and 21st century standards of enlightenment on historical figures. Of course they are found wanting, as most of us will be over a century from now (myself, of course, excluded ).
___________
The world Julian wanted to preserve and restore is gone...the barbarians are at the gate. Yet when they breach the wall, they will find nothing of value to seize, only empty relics. The spirit of what we were has fled.
-Gore Vidal, "Julian"
Posts: 522 | Location: St. Albans, WV | Registered: February 03, 2004
To draw moral equivalents between a group of people from a turbulent time in our history several hundred years ago, and a business that happens to have set up their HQ in Tennessee is absolutely moronic. I formerly worked with a guy, who, like you, was always 'morally opposed' to something or other. If you feel such a lack of control over the things in your life that you have to perpetuate this one-man boycott stuff, then either lighten-up or seek therapy.
Pointing out the hypocracy of Al Gore should be nominated as the next Olympic sport, since most statements he make in public are full of it. I wouldn't pick his ilk as a role model. Tennessee-ans knew enough not to vote for him. Hey, do you think they were morally opposed to it?
Anyway, more Brazilia's and Mx2's for us - the Ozgener family members that I've met seem to be real nice people.
Posts: 818 | Location: Central New Jersey | Registered: March 15, 2005
Come on guys, don't be so hard on this guy. I agree with him that it sucks that a state names parks/creates sculptures/and glorifies a man that wanted to rid this country of all the blacks/immigrants/jews/catholics. I think what OMR is getting at is that if he purchases CAO cigars, then his money goes to pay taxes to the state of Tennesee.
I do believe that Tennesee is in the wrong here. We are not talking about statues erected 100 years ago, but rather in the past ten years: http://www.tennessee-scv.org/camp28/Equestrian_Statue.html Also, this guy has more statues in Tennesee than any of the three US presidents from Tennesee. Thats f*cked up.
However, I do agree that if OMR held every state up to the same rigorous standards, he would end up boycotting all 50 of them.
Oh, and don't cry about affirmative action. I too had great test scores, perfect grades, etc... I'm also white, and did not receive any scholarships, and I'm currently paying off ridiculous student loans. But in the end I'm thankful that (unlike millions of people in this country) I had the opportunity to goto college. I'm also thankful that I went to a diverse public university. I personally support affirmative action and consider it favoritism that helps to counter balance 100's of years of segregation and oppresion in this country. It's checks and balances! If you want to argue that its unconstitutional, then I'd love to discuss it with you and listen to your point of view. However, if you want to b*tch about what handouts you weren't given then I've got better things to do.
OMR, if I sent you a Cuban cigar, would you smoke it?
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"The word Fascism has now no meaning except insofar as it signifies 'something not desirable'." -- George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language," 1946
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#2 Most Friendly Guy, Connoisseur of All Things Fine, Elitist Ass, and One of the Two Biggest Douchebags in the Forums
I've just read your post, and I'm basically speachless!
A couple of points.
First, you don't know much about the civil war. Slavery was a VERY small part of the reason it was started. Read a book for christ sake! Second, You should join the NAACP(another racist org.). They like taking civil war monuments down, and trying their best to erase history. For good or bad, history is what it is. Let it be. Third, your post is assanine I like the part about not wanting to smoke CAO's anymore. that was funny but alas, also pathetic. And one more thing. The next time you have a thought, just let it go.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: TPSO,
"Disfigured and shunned by society, he turned to the tranquil seclusion of cigar collecting."
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