I am looking to start an online cigar retailer, looking to serve the true cigar lover. What do my fellow aficionados look for in a website? What would drive you to use a particular site? Price? Selection? Service?
What do the other sites cater to, "false" cigar lovers?... Not to bust your chops too much.
Or do you mean lovers of premium cigars? Is this a commentary on your clientele you're going after?
The only reason I look online is to get cheaper prices than my local stores. What keeps me afraid of online retailers is the quality -- since the HUGE drawback of ordering online is that you can't pick your sticks from off the shelf. Somebody else does it for you -- then there are the unknowns, like packaging and handling.
I don't know why more sites don't EXPRESSLY describe how they package and ship, and in what conditions their stock is stored. I assume they have warehouse-sized humidors, but they (often) never say.
If you are out to cut prices, the only way to do it is through volume and relationships with manufacturers. If you don't have those things, you won't be able to compete price-wise with the existing sites.
You might try something novel like auctioning, if you can do it better than other places, that could give you a market. But you don't say if you're going to try to offer price cuts, or what your store's gimmick is going to be.
~ masher
Posts: 267 | Location: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: June 08, 2004
quote:Originally posted by Bulz: Not looking to offend online buyers. I just don't like the undercutters. I think they are bad for the cigar industry.
I don't think JR's, Holts, CI, etc. are undercutting anyone. They simply don't have to charge state tax. I don't know about CT, but in NY if I buy from a local dealer I pay a 37% tabacco tax, plus a 7.25% sales tax. By buying on line, I save far more than a few bucks. I still go to my local shop to get singles, but any boxes are bought online. The cost difference is just too great.
Rob
Rob G
Posts: 796 | Location: New York | Registered: November 11, 2003
They ARE under-cutting!!! I frequently check out sites to see where the pricing is and it is usually well below the price a person will find in a store. I have only made one purchase on-line and there was a significant price difference on that purchase. I am with Bulz on this one. Keep this in mind...retail tobacco businesses are no different than any other retailer when it comes to battling e-commerce. While it is great for the end user....in most cases.....it only hurts local tobacco stores. I myself would hate for my local store/club to shut down. I am willing to pay a little more for my smokes because I know that I am helping to keep a local business running. That may not be important to some people but for me it is. I would hate to wake up some day and find that my only source for shopping for anything would be to fire up the computer to buy.
You're right, I guess, about under-cutting. But if you want a few sticks, or to try different cigars, you'll still have to go to your local guy. That's what I do.
Some shops will meet the price you get on line. I guess you have to ask.
Tiny Tim Sergeant at Arms S.N.O.B. #1020
Posts: 3341 | Location: Columbia, S.C. USA | Registered: April 23, 2003
It ISN'T undercutting. It's a business just like any other business. I commend you for wanting to support the small guy, but many of the online retailers are also brick and mortars as well. Both of my local shop sell online as an added stream.
quote:Originally posted by JamesEIII: They ARE under-cutting!!! I frequently check out sites to see where the pricing is and it is usually well below the price a person will find in a store. I have only made one purchase on-line and there was a significant price difference on that purchase. I am with Bulz on this one. Keep this in mind...retail tobacco businesses are no different than any other retailer when it comes to battling e-commerce. While it is great for the end user....in most cases.....it only hurts local tobacco stores. I myself would hate for my local store/club to shut down. I am willing to pay a little more for my smokes because I know that I am helping to keep a local business running. That may not be important to some people but for me it is. I would hate to wake up some day and find that my only source for shopping for anything would be to fire up the computer to buy.
First of all, calm down.
Secondly, I think we need to define undercutting. If selling less is undercutting, then yes, online retailers are undercutting. But to me, undercutting is selling products at a price level where little to no profit is made. The online retailers are not doing that. They are simplying selling cigars at the same price as your local retailer, less the tax. Don't believe me, check out Rocky's Cigars.. They are a local retailer in Syracuse, NY. If you look on there web page, there prices are very competitive. But, only for out of state buyers. If I want to buy from them, whether through the mail or from the shop, I pay more than 40% more. Is Rocky's undercutting themselves? I don't think so. They simply don't have to charge the out of state customers the NY state taxes. That is why they can sell for less. They are not undercutting anyone.
Plus, everyone says they would pay a little more to shop with the local retailer. I agree, and so would I. That's why I buy singles locally. But when buying a box, a 40% savings is not a "little" savings.
You want to help the local shops, get the taxes and the smoking laws repealed. The owner of my favorite local shop had to lay off all his employees because of the business he lost as a result of the no smoking laws. He is located in an area surrounded by bars and restaurants. People used to stop by and grab a cigar or two to enjoy after dinner. Now, no one can smoke in any public place and those people don't buy from him anymore. The no smoking laws have hurt his business much more then online sales.
Rob G
Posts: 796 | Location: New York | Registered: November 11, 2003
Well.....in order to compete with the online pricing I do imagine some shops will sell on line as well. This increases there overall purchases with a given manufacturer which in turn gets them lower prices. I am a rep for audio products and believe me that I deal with this activity on a daily basis. My dealers get incentives, kickbacks, and lower prices based on how much they purchase. While you are right that it IS a business......too many people out there wake up, get a website, make a couple of calls, and start selling......IMHO....I am not saying that all on-line companies are like this......I know there are legitimate companies selling on-line but most of them in my business only use the internent to pad numbers........and YES I WOULD CALL IT UNDER-CUTTING. E-commerce survives on one thing only.......VOLUME...and the only way to achieve this is buy cutting the price....if the prices were the same there would be no value in purchasing off of the internet...
OK OK OK lets get back on topic here. This thread has been derailed worse than an Am-Track wreck.
Cigar website: for the love of god, please use asp or php as your language. Get a good host so the thing is fast and give your self an easy way to quickly update inventory. For a quick easy to code example (since in my opinion EVERY cigar site has crappy navigation, is too slow, and never has up-to-date info) look here: http://yorktown.cbe.wwu.edu/04Spring/schnieb/store/ This is a fake E-commerce site that I built as example of how powerful simple ASP and a bit of HTML can be, this site only has a handful of pages they are simply accessed dynamically and quickly. One of the things that is most likely to drive me away from a web site is bad navigation and or bad site aesthetics. It’s the same as walking into a shady store. Also, you never want to down talk your inventory, but be honest about the cigars you carry. It really irritates me when I head to a site and the descriptions make a honey flavored machine made cigar sound similar to an Ashton VSG. What else...oh yeah, show the shipping costs before the customer has gotten into the purchasing procedure, and don't make the site have a login system, they are pointless and drive business away because people don't want to give out permanently stored info. I would also like to see more sites with a 'make your own sampler' deal, it’s a great idea, something you can up charge, and likely makes some money during holiday seasons. I'll post more as I think of stuff...I have lots to say so you're in for a treat
--edit O.K. I already have another one. I truly despise it when a site (especially Thompson) writes up reviews and uses words like "helluva" or "er" instead of 'it' or 'that'. Really, you are writing about a specialty/luxury item here, write like it. Use a big word every now and then, give actual taste descriptions, stop talking about how the .75 cent a stick 100 pack bundle of no-name cheapos was a "helluva deal, give er a try". Make your site sound sophisticated; make it look high-class, make people feel like its something they should belong too rather than just that place they shop. BTW I purchase online because the closest cigar shop with a high-quality selection is 100 miles away, they are cheaper, and the brick and mortar shop and suck it down if they don't want to be competitive then they can close their doors.
Oh, I got a million dreams. That's all I do is dream -Duke Ellington
[This message was edited by Digital_Demon on August 11, 2004 at 07:13 PM.]
Posts: 794 | Location: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: July 19, 2004
