Has anyone seen this? I've watched most of it and I have to say it is fascinating. PBS did an excellent job putting this together.

You can watch the full program online here.

Hadn't seen it - thanks for posting this

(I need to actually turn on the TV every now & then...)

I would suggest that you watch "Bad Voodoo's War" which is also a Frontline show. I had a friend of mine that did convoy escort & got blown up 7 times.

And you thought your commute was bad...

SSG Big Tobacco

quote:

Originally posted by Big Tobacco:
I would suggest that you watch "Bad Voodoo's War" which is also a Frontline show. I had a friend of mine that did convoy escort & got blown up 7 times.

And you thought your commute was bad...

SSG Big Tobacco

Acutally, I watched most of it last night. Very well done. Hopefully I can finish the rest tonight.


I also watched the series about Haditha and the bull$hit rules of engagement. Tim McGirk from Time magazine and John Murtha should be ashamed of themselves for being used as pawns by the insurgency.

There is some wiggle room on Haditha.

Disclaimer: I wasn't there that day. The only people who will ever know what happened were the Marines that were there.

In a nutshelll, those Marines cleared the houses as if they were fighting in Fallujah. They should have been a little more surgical. You simply don't throw grenades in a house unless you are absolutely sure that it needs to be done.

The ROE is the ROE because somebody in a pay grade way higher than mine thought it was a good idea. The ROE never prevents you from defending yourself. But there is a difference between defending yourself and clearing 4 houses as if they were all filled with bad guys.

BT

quote:

Originally posted by Big Tobacco:
In a nutshelll, those Marines cleared the houses as if they were fighting in Fallujah. They should have been a little more surgical. You simply don't throw grenades in a house unless you are absolutely sure that it needs to be done.

I see it a little differently. The Marines felt they WERE taking fire from House #1. It seems to me they were absolutely sure they needed to use grenades to defend themselves.

Either way, it is pretty clear Murtha's comments were sickening.

quote:

The ROE is the ROE because somebody in a pay grade way higher than mine thought it was a good idea. The ROE never prevents you from defending yourself. But there is a difference between defending yourself and clearing 4 houses as if they were all filled with bad guys.

BT

Like you said, the only people who really know what happened were the Marines there that day, so it is very difficult to suggest that an appropriate amount of force was or wasn't used. In this case, it seems these Marines were applying the amount of force they though was required to end the threat.

The tragedy is that more focus is paid on these Marines for the loss of innocent civilians than on the isurgents who used them as sheilds.

Were we more "bloodthirsty" years ago but I don't seem to hear in the history books any great remonstrances over civillian casulties in either WW1 or WW2.

Dresden sure as He** was no surgical strike.

You know, black people were owned as human chattel and women couldn't vote at one time, too . . .

things change; it is the only way the world progresses

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MeanWillieGreen,

quote:

Originally posted by MeanWillieGreen:
You know, black people were owned as human chattel and women couldn't vote at one time, too . . .

things change; it is the only way the world progresses

You're are correct. And in some parts of the world, this still has not changed.

quote:

Originally posted by KKL:

quote:

Originally posted by MeanWillieGreen:
You know, black people were owned as human chattel and women couldn't vote at one time, too . . .

things change; it is the only way the world progresses

You're are correct. And in some parts of the world, this still has not changed.

Thanks for reminding me! <pangea rushes out to feed the slaves>