People are too fixated on CO2 emissions and not enough importance is put on methane. Methane is much more potent as a greenhouse gas. Methane is also inexorably tied to food production.
You can find cleaner fuels and build cleaner engines to reduce CO2 emissions, but finding entirely different ways to feed the people on this earth will be a tougher task.
Originally posted by sobek: People are too fixated on CO2 emissions and not enough importance is put on methane. Methane is much more potent as a greenhouse gas. Methane is also inexorably tied to food production.
You can find cleaner fuels and build cleaner engines to reduce CO2 emissions, but finding entirely different ways to feed the people on this earth will be a tougher task.
True, methane is included, it goes along with the "common currency" statement I made earlier, and you're right, it's a harder task. You're right in saying it's more potent, but it also doesn't stay in the atmosphere for as long as CO2. If I recall, methane stays in the atmosphere for 10 years, while CO2 stays in for 100. Of course, that's assuming you're not putting anymore methane in the atmosphere.
Nevertheless, it does pose a difficult challange, you're correct.Now, livestock does actually make up a pretty large part of methane emissions, as funny as it sounds to people. So, one solutions it to become strict vegans. Most people, including myself, do not want to do that, but if it's between not eating meat and not living, I'll pass on the hamburgers.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."-Mark Twain
Global warming is a farce and Al Gore is a nutcase. More and more scientists are coming out to speak against the global warming theory.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Originally posted by A Work Of Art, Inc.: He's not interested in the real world I bet. Shhhhh, he's listening to Rush and Hannity to get his orders.
quote:
Originally posted by jms2788:
quote:
Originally posted by brewerc: Man can't even fathom a way to make a fraction of the emissions that a single volcano eruption can put off. Even over decades we can't come close to what a single eruption would emit in C02. I think that is where I have a problem with man believing that they are so capable. Do we contribute, I'm sure that every time I belch it's a contribution of some sort. I just think we give ourselves way too much credit.
This is grossly inaccurate.
"Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have increased by about 25% since the beginning of the 19th century. This change is larger than any natural fluctuation that has occured since the retreat of the glaciers 11,000 years ago and is almost certainly attributable to human causes, principally the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation". Lee R. Kump-Penn State.
"Present-day carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from subaerial and submarine volcanoes are uncertain at the present time. Gerlach (1991) estimated a total global release of 3-4 x 10E12 mol/yr from volcanoes. This is a conservative estimate. Man-made (anthropogenic) CO2 emissions overwhelm this estimate by at least 150 times."
Link to where I found this. It'll give you much of the information you need.
They also provide 10 sources to where they found this information.
Also from UND:
At Mount St Helens the maximum measured emission rate was 2.2X10^7 kg per day. As a long-term average, volcanism produces about 5X10^11 kg of CO2 per year; that production, along with oceanic and terrestrial biomass cycling maintained a carbon dioxide reservoir in the atmosphere of about 2.2X10^15 kg. Current fossil fuel and land use practices now introduce about a (net) 17.6X10^12 kg of CO2 into the atmosphere and has resulted in a progressively increasing atmospheric reservoir of 2.69X10^15 kg of CO2. Hence, volcanism produces about 3% of the total CO2 with the other 97% coming from man-made sources.
For more detail, see Morse and Mackenzie, 1990, Geochemistry of Sedimentary Carbonates. Scott Rowland, University of Hawaii Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota
Perhaps you should stop taking orders from Al Gore, the failed presidential candidate who decided to get fat, grow a beard and start pontificating to everyone on earth as he flies around on a private jet, creating more carbon on his own than any 10 Americans put together. He is merely a hypocrite. Just a thought.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Originally posted by Presley: Global warming is a farce and Al Gore is a nutcase. More and more scientists are coming out to speak against the global warming theory.
Sources please.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."-Mark Twain
global warming is pure bull$hit consider the fact that the keeping of weather and tempatures has only been done for about 150 years. anything before that time is pure guesswork i guess that this cold winter we just had is a fluke
Originally posted by cigarman1000: global warming is pure bull$hit consider the fact that the keeping of weather and tempatures has only been done for about 150 years. anything before that time is pure guesswork i guess that this cold winter we just had is a fluke
150 years? Uummmmm, no. Guess work? Not really, more like ice cores, trees rings, land formations, and a half of dozen other thing.
I like how people here make HUGE assumptions even though they have no expreience with the topic other than some ancedotal BS about how the winter was cold and about how since 1945-1975 was colder it can't be true lol.
Please keep trying because nobody has posted actual sources yet to prove there point besides me.
Presely, I don't know who you wer talking to, but I said I don't listen to Al Gore. You honestly think this is a political question?
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."-Mark Twain
You go jms! You've got my full support and I'm making you my official "GB spokesman".
Come on guys, it's only logical to try and have minimal impact on the planet that supports us -- for our sake. Doesn't make much sense to have a thriving economy if it kills us all.
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
Originally posted by flashman: You go jms! You've got my full support and I'm making you my official "GB spokesman".
Come on guys, it's only logical to try and have minimal impact on the planet that supports us -- for our sake. Doesn't make much sense to have a thriving economy if it kills us all.
Man, I don't even have that much knowledge, I just took a 2 part college course worth 8 credits. I mean that first article just makes basic statements that are very wrong, how to could trust the entire thing? There are no links to any sort of numbers, research, studies, charts, or anything else to support his claim. He even says it's ancendotal and one year doesn't prove anything. Plus, 2007 was the 5th warmest since 1880, so I'm not sure what records he's looking at, and of course he doesn't tell us. Maybe that's for a reason .
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."-Mark Twain
The oil, gas and coal lobby are extremely strong. American society is a classic case of consumerism gone amock.
To be a success, to be important, to be respected, to be loved and to be happy YOU MUST HAVE a big new car, the latest electronic gadgets, lots of ait conditionsing, lots of heating. Who doesn't want those. Everyone does right.
Why not. You get a boner from driving a gas guzzler. It doesn't matter. The pollution created is diluted and spread all over the world. You get the boner all by your lonesome and the gas guzzler's excrement is evenly spread over everyone else's table cloth.
Yeah, see I hate when it turns into some political debate because it shouldn't be. Al Gore does make false statement, so whatever he says I wouldn't listen to without checking with at least 3 other academic sources. You shouldn't dismiss the entire claim just because you don't agree with Al Gore's political affiliation.
Look, I've shown silicate formation and weather adds CO2 to the atmosphere and has created temperature changes for billions of years well before humans or any other mammals were on the earth. Therefore, it follows that adding more will cause warming because that's the way it has worked for 4.5 BY. CO2 and CH4 didn't because greenhouse gasses when Al Gore opened his mouth, they always were greenhouse gasses. In fact, we need these gasses in the atmosphere, but if the concentration is too high or low, it has consequences that will be hamful to humans.
I admit, there are "windows", which show there can only be a certain amount in the atmosphere before it just goes to outer space. It's similar to a sponge, once it's saturated, it can't pick up more water. However, that window is pretty high.
It's not just temperature, it's precipitation and also the PH in the oceans. The PH is lowering causing problems for species living in the oceans. The sea level in Bangladesh is estimated to rise about 19" in 100 years, which will displace millions.
Honestly, I'm kind of surprised by the whole thing because I really didn't think it was a debate if it's happening or not, I thought the debate was mostly what we should do about it.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."-Mark Twain
Originally posted by jms2788: Honestly, I'm kind of surprised by the whole thing because I really didn't think it was a debate if it's happening or not, I thought the debate was mostly what we should do about it.
It is also about to which extent we are responsible for the warming -- what percentage can we attribute to normal cycles and what percentage can we attribute to man.
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
A proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere mixes with rain water and acidifies it. The acid rain falls on rocks and minerals. The weathering of rocks & minerals scrubs a proportion of CO2 out of the rain. The carbon is chemically fixed tin other molecules and is precicipitated or washed into the oceans. Eventually plate tectonics recycles theses carbonates etc and a proportion of carbon as CO2 returns to the atmosphere or ocean water.
Anthropogenic sources of CO2 have overwhelmed this.
CO2 increases the temperature of the air by trapping infrared radiation. Anybody that says the contrary is either ignorant, stupid, crazy or lying. That includes members of CA. I'll put my thermodynamics and heat transfer training against yours any day.
The most pathetic thing in this is that CO2 warming effects had been masked for decades for sulfur based particulates in the atmosphere that reduced insolation. The dusty crap in the air modified cloud cover and pan evaporation rates went down all over the world. Water evaporation is sensitive to photons. More photons and more energetic photons help evaporation by "boosting" an H2O molecule out of the water surface and into the air above it. Less photons means less evaporation. Global dimming.
Climate change deniers are pollution deniers. If the denier is a rich, powerful capitalist...well he has his reasons.
If the denier is some blue collar or white collar petroleum or coal employee. Well he has his reasons.
If the denier is the rest of us. Well stupidity is not a crime. It just gets you hurt.
QM Quality does not occur by chance. It is the result of intelligent activities.
Posts: 7145 | Location: Cigar land | Registered: March 10, 2003
He is doing a lot of good bringing awareness to Global Warming and what we can do about it. He donated all the money from his movie and I admire him. Typical Ditto Head, = call people names and find one rediculous thing to exploit and ignore the bigger picture.
quote:
Originally posted by Presley:
quote:
Originally posted by A Work Of Art, Inc.: He's not interested in the real world I bet. Shhhhh, he's listening to Rush and Hannity to get his orders.
quote:
Originally posted by jms2788:
quote:
Originally posted by brewerc: Man can't even fathom a way to make a fraction of the emissions that a single volcano eruption can put off. Even over decades we can't come close to what a single eruption would emit in C02. I think that is where I have a problem with man believing that they are so capable. Do we contribute, I'm sure that every time I belch it's a contribution of some sort. I just think we give ourselves way too much credit.
This is grossly inaccurate.
"Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have increased by about 25% since the beginning of the 19th century. This change is larger than any natural fluctuation that has occured since the retreat of the glaciers 11,000 years ago and is almost certainly attributable to human causes, principally the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation". Lee R. Kump-Penn State.
"Present-day carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from subaerial and submarine volcanoes are uncertain at the present time. Gerlach (1991) estimated a total global release of 3-4 x 10E12 mol/yr from volcanoes. This is a conservative estimate. Man-made (anthropogenic) CO2 emissions overwhelm this estimate by at least 150 times."
Link to where I found this. It'll give you much of the information you need.
They also provide 10 sources to where they found this information.
Also from UND:
At Mount St Helens the maximum measured emission rate was 2.2X10^7 kg per day. As a long-term average, volcanism produces about 5X10^11 kg of CO2 per year; that production, along with oceanic and terrestrial biomass cycling maintained a carbon dioxide reservoir in the atmosphere of about 2.2X10^15 kg. Current fossil fuel and land use practices now introduce about a (net) 17.6X10^12 kg of CO2 into the atmosphere and has resulted in a progressively increasing atmospheric reservoir of 2.69X10^15 kg of CO2. Hence, volcanism produces about 3% of the total CO2 with the other 97% coming from man-made sources.
For more detail, see Morse and Mackenzie, 1990, Geochemistry of Sedimentary Carbonates. Scott Rowland, University of Hawaii Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota
Perhaps you should stop taking orders from Al Gore, the failed presidential candidate who decided to get fat, grow a beard and start pontificating to everyone on earth as he flies around on a private jet, creating more carbon on his own than any 10 Americans put together. He is merely a hypocrite. Just a thought.
WOW, talk about ignorance... or is it just lazyness? Science can document thousands of years of historical data through glacier samples and other means. The thermometer and a pencil and pad is the conservative way I guess.
quote:
Originally posted by cigarman1000: global warming is pure bull$hit consider the fact that the keeping of weather and tempatures has only been done for about 150 years. anything before that time is pure guesswork i guess that this cold winter we just had is a fluke
AMEN brother. Sounds like he would rather listen to a right wing talk show to tell him what he thinks. It's so much easier!
quote:
Originally posted by jms2788:
quote:
Originally posted by cigarman1000: global warming is pure bull$hit consider the fact that the keeping of weather and tempatures has only been done for about 150 years. anything before that time is pure guesswork i guess that this cold winter we just had is a fluke
150 years? Uummmmm, no. Guess work? Not really, more like ice cores, trees rings, land formations, and a half of dozen other thing.
I like how people here make HUGE assumptions even though they have no expreience with the topic other than some ancedotal BS about how the winter was cold and about how since 1945-1975 was colder it can't be true lol.
Please keep trying because nobody has posted actual sources yet to prove there point besides me.
Presely, I don't know who you wer talking to, but I said I don't listen to Al Gore. You honestly think this is a political question?
Originally posted by QM: A proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere mixes with rain water and acidifies it. The acid rain falls on rocks and minerals. The weathering of rocks & minerals scrubs a proportion of CO2 out of the rain. The carbon is chemically fixed tin other molecules and is precicipitated or washed into the oceans. Eventually plate tectonics recycles theses carbonates etc and a proportion of carbon as CO2 returns to the atmosphere or ocean water.
Anthropogenic sources of CO2 have overwhelmed this.
CO2 increases the temperature of the air by trapping infrared radiation. Anybody that says the contrary is either ignorant, stupid, crazy or lying. That includes members of CA. I'll put my thermodynamics and heat transfer training against yours any day.
The most pathetic thing in this is that CO2 warming effects had been masked for decades for sulfur based particulates in the atmosphere that reduced insolation. The dusty crap in the air modified cloud cover and pan evaporation rates went down all over the world. Water evaporation is sensitive to photons. More photons and more energetic photons help evaporation by "boosting" an H2O molecule out of the water surface and into the air above it. Less photons means less evaporation. Global dimming.
Climate change deniers are pollution deniers. If the denier is a rich, powerful capitalist...well he has his reasons.
If the denier is some blue collar or white collar petroleum or coal employee. Well he has his reasons.
If the denier is the rest of us. Well stupidity is not a crime. It just gets you hurt.
Originally posted by A Work Of Art, Inc.: AMEN brother. Sounds like he would rather listen to a right wing talk show to tell him what he thinks. It's so much easier!
I guess that would be the same as listening to a left wing politician who consistently spews inaccuracies.
Posts: 1252 | Location: WI | Registered: November 16, 2007
He is merely a hypocrite. Just a thought.
.
