Ok, well I don't trust the validity of that article for a few reasons. First, it said the little age ice was from 1100 to 1850, which is incorrect. There was the medieval warm period from roughly 1000 to 1400. Second, that part about crops increasing with warmng isn't exactly true in the long term. If we get less than 4 degrees of warming, global crops will increase. If we get more, they decrease. If we don't change, by 2100 there will be 4 times the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, which will cause over 7 degrees of warming. If we change, we could get 2x CO2 by 2100, which would cause 3.5 degrees warming. However, we will not change fast enough, imo.
If you want to know about agricultural and both an unbiased view of global warming, click here. These are notes from my global warming general education class, the professor presented both says and was fairly unbiased, so you can judge for yourself.
I believe he talks about crops in lecture #6 or #7.
Yes, global warming is happening. Should you go by Al Gore? No. However, I think most scientists really believe it's real. Can we stop it? I'm not sure. We probably could, but it's going to take more than chaning lightbulbs and getting a few more MPG out of your car. I don't think people will want to change.
"Think for a moment about whether it is ethical to throw a living creature into boiling water before sucking it down with a cup of melted butter"
Nothing personal, but I don't think I would call anything unbiased that has the name "Global Warming General Education".
I guess they'll make a class for anything now just to make a buck. Used to be general science classes would teach all about this stuff anyway without the tilt in either direction.
Well, actually it's a geography course that I took counted as a general education credit. The actually title of the course is like Global weather systems and temperature.
Don't tell me what the class was or what the teacher was like, you weren't there. I love that "nothing personal" line. People say that when they want to insult you knowledge of the subject or the truthfulness of your statement, but don't want you to now they are.
Plus, if by "used to" you mean anywhere from 1945 to 1975, they wouldn't have thaught you any of this because the Earth was cooling and they had no idea about global warming. They didn't used to teach you this stuff. If they did, maybe somebody would have stopped it.
"Think for a moment about whether it is ethical to throw a living creature into boiling water before sucking it down with a cup of melted butter"
Originally posted by jms2788: Plus, if by "used to" you mean anywhere from 1945 to 1975, they wouldn't have thaught you any of this because the Earth was cooling and they had no idea about global warming.
Which is evidence many scientists use to explain why they do not believe the rise in CO2 causes warming.
Posts: 2033 | Location: WI | Registered: November 16, 2007
Originally posted by jms2788: Plus, if by "used to" you mean anywhere from 1945 to 1975, they wouldn't have thaught you any of this because the Earth was cooling and they had no idea about global warming.
Which is evidence many scientists use to explain why they do not believe the rise in CO2 causes warming.
Industry has increased since then. I'm not sure on exactly how much, I'll have to check, but it has increased.
Plus, they are more people and countries comsuming fossil fuels. There are 2 billion more people than there were in 1975.
Also, when people say 2xCO2, the CO2 is a common currency. We're not just talking about that particular greenhouse gas, but others as well.
Listen, no matter what is causing it, you must admit it is happening. If our temperature rasises 7 degrees, that'll be the highest temperature in the past 2 million years.
Not to mention the ice caps are melting which is causing positive feedback and lowering the albedo even more. The positive feedbacks are really going to be what hurts us. Not just the ice feedback, but others such as the ocean. When warm, GHG's get released, casuing even more positive feedback.
Oh, and by the way, insolation decreased during that 30 year period between 1945 and 1975, which caused the cooling.
Coincidently, insolation decreased during the 1990's as well, but the temperature didn't decrease.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: jms2788,
"Think for a moment about whether it is ethical to throw a living creature into boiling water before sucking it down with a cup of melted butter"
Chill out guy. You listed the title of the course not me. I was just making a point and you made it perfectly for me. BTW I graduated from HS in 84 and they knew about the cyclical warming and cooling of the earth back then.
I didn't say I don't believe in global warming or cooling, I just believe it happens naturally. Within another twenty years we'll be scaring the daylights out of college students over global cooling again and the coming ice age.
earth will always have its cycles all the rest is fear mongering and marketing
"Cuban seed tobaccos grown in Nicaragua and Cuba. The wrapper would be from Cuba. The binder leaves would be from Nicaragua. For the ligero tobacco in the filler, he would use two types, one from Esteli and the other from Jalapa in Nicaragua. The other filler components, seco and viso, would come from Cuba, the former from Villa Clara, the latter from Pinar del Rio. That Cigar, he says with pride, would score 100 points." -Don Pepin Garcia
Posts: 851 | Location: Here | Registered: December 11, 2006
Yes, it will have its cycles, but look at was caused those cycles, it's some major event such as large volcanic activity and continental drift.
For example, the Earth was 12 degrees warming during the Phanerozoic. Now, at that time, there was a supercontinent near the equator, so there wasn't as much silicate weathering, so there was more CO2 in the atmosphere. As the continent split, there was more land mass on which silicate weathering could occur, causing CO2 to leave the atmosphere.
KKL, I would really like to see where a scientist says CO2 doesn't cause warming or cooling. Maybe they're saying anthropogenic CO2 doesn't cause warming, but I don't see how any scientist would actually say any CO2 or other greenhouse gasses don't cause warming(or cooling), because it clearly has for the past 4.5 billion years. Silicate weathering and formation have caused the past changes, and silicate weathering and formation have everything to do with CO2.
"Think for a moment about whether it is ethical to throw a living creature into boiling water before sucking it down with a cup of melted butter"
Originally posted by jms2788: KKL, I would really like to see where a scientist says CO2 doesn't cause warming or cooling.
I don't believe I indicated that they didn't say cooling?
Well, I was saying I would like to see where a scientist said it doesn't cause temperature change at all, warming or cooling. Maybe a long time ago they thought that, but I would question anyone who has made that statement in the past 20 or 30 years.
An increase or decrease in atmospheric CO2 will cause warming or cooling, no matter if it's human caused or natural. That's the way it has worked for quite some time.
brewerc, sorry if I came of rude, it's been a long day. However, I didn't prove your point becuse that decrease was due to a decrease in insolation, not CO2.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: jms2788,
"Think for a moment about whether it is ethical to throw a living creature into boiling water before sucking it down with a cup of melted butter"
Man can't even fathom a way to make a fraction of the emissions that a single volcano eruption can put off. Even over decades we can't come close to what a single eruption would emit in C02. I think that is where I have a problem with man believing that they are so capable. Do we contribute, I'm sure that every time I belch it's a contribution of some sort. I just think we give ourselves way too much credit.
Originally posted by brewerc: Man can't even fathom a way to make a fraction of the emissions that a single volcano eruption can put off. Even over decades we can't come close to what a single eruption would emit in C02. I think that is where I have a problem with man believing that they are so capable. Do we contribute, I'm sure that every time I belch it's a contribution of some sort. I just think we give ourselves way too much credit.
This is grossly inaccurate.
"Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have increased by about 25% since the beginning of the 19th century. This change is larger than any natural fluctuation that has occured since the retreat of the glaciers 11,000 years ago and is almost certainly attributable to human causes, principally the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation". Lee R. Kump-Penn State.
"Present-day carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from subaerial and submarine volcanoes are uncertain at the present time. Gerlach (1991) estimated a total global release of 3-4 x 10E12 mol/yr from volcanoes. This is a conservative estimate. Man-made (anthropogenic) CO2 emissions overwhelm this estimate by at least 150 times."
Link to where I found this. It'll give you much of the information you need.
They also provide 10 sources to where they found this information.
Also from UND:
At Mount St Helens the maximum measured emission rate was 2.2X10^7 kg per day. As a long-term average, volcanism produces about 5X10^11 kg of CO2 per year; that production, along with oceanic and terrestrial biomass cycling maintained a carbon dioxide reservoir in the atmosphere of about 2.2X10^15 kg. Current fossil fuel and land use practices now introduce about a (net) 17.6X10^12 kg of CO2 into the atmosphere and has resulted in a progressively increasing atmospheric reservoir of 2.69X10^15 kg of CO2. Hence, volcanism produces about 3% of the total CO2 with the other 97% coming from man-made sources.
For more detail, see Morse and Mackenzie, 1990, Geochemistry of Sedimentary Carbonates. Scott Rowland, University of Hawaii Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota
Naturally? So massive Pollution getting worse and worse and affecting the climate and our water and AIR IS NATURAL? ahhhh, ignorance is bliss.
quote:
Originally posted by brewerc: Chill out guy. You listed the title of the course not me. I was just making a point and you made it perfectly for me. BTW I graduated from HS in 84 and they knew about the cyclical warming and cooling of the earth back then.
I didn't say I don't believe in global warming or cooling, I just believe it happens naturally. Within another twenty years we'll be scaring the daylights out of college students over global cooling again and the coming ice age.
The trillions of tons of CO2 emitted constatn;y every day by cars and factories worldwide put out FAR more than your Rush Limbaugh's belch, a cow fart or your occasional volcano.
quote:
Originally posted by brewerc: Man can't even fathom a way to make a fraction of the emissions that a single volcano eruption can put off. Even over decades we can't come close to what a single eruption would emit in C02. I think that is where I have a problem with man believing that they are so capable. Do we contribute, I'm sure that every time I belch it's a contribution of some sort. I just think we give ourselves way too much credit.
He's not interested in the real world I bet. Shhhhh, he's listening to Rush and Hannity to get his orders.
quote:
Originally posted by jms2788:
quote:
Originally posted by brewerc: Man can't even fathom a way to make a fraction of the emissions that a single volcano eruption can put off. Even over decades we can't come close to what a single eruption would emit in C02. I think that is where I have a problem with man believing that they are so capable. Do we contribute, I'm sure that every time I belch it's a contribution of some sort. I just think we give ourselves way too much credit.
This is grossly inaccurate.
"Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have increased by about 25% since the beginning of the 19th century. This change is larger than any natural fluctuation that has occured since the retreat of the glaciers 11,000 years ago and is almost certainly attributable to human causes, principally the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation". Lee R. Kump-Penn State.
"Present-day carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from subaerial and submarine volcanoes are uncertain at the present time. Gerlach (1991) estimated a total global release of 3-4 x 10E12 mol/yr from volcanoes. This is a conservative estimate. Man-made (anthropogenic) CO2 emissions overwhelm this estimate by at least 150 times."
Link to where I found this. It'll give you much of the information you need.
They also provide 10 sources to where they found this information.
Also from UND:
At Mount St Helens the maximum measured emission rate was 2.2X10^7 kg per day. As a long-term average, volcanism produces about 5X10^11 kg of CO2 per year; that production, along with oceanic and terrestrial biomass cycling maintained a carbon dioxide reservoir in the atmosphere of about 2.2X10^15 kg. Current fossil fuel and land use practices now introduce about a (net) 17.6X10^12 kg of CO2 into the atmosphere and has resulted in a progressively increasing atmospheric reservoir of 2.69X10^15 kg of CO2. Hence, volcanism produces about 3% of the total CO2 with the other 97% coming from man-made sources.
For more detail, see Morse and Mackenzie, 1990, Geochemistry of Sedimentary Carbonates. Scott Rowland, University of Hawaii Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota
Originally posted by A Work Of Art, Inc.: He's not interested in the real world I bet. Shhhhh, he's listening to Rush and Hannity to get his orders.
quote:
Originally posted by jms2788:
quote:
Originally posted by brewerc: Man can't even fathom a way to make a fraction of the emissions that a single volcano eruption can put off. Even over decades we can't come close to what a single eruption would emit in C02. I think that is where I have a problem with man believing that they are so capable. Do we contribute, I'm sure that every time I belch it's a contribution of some sort. I just think we give ourselves way too much credit.
This is grossly inaccurate.
"Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have increased by about 25% since the beginning of the 19th century. This change is larger than any natural fluctuation that has occured since the retreat of the glaciers 11,000 years ago and is almost certainly attributable to human causes, principally the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation". Lee R. Kump-Penn State.
"Present-day carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from subaerial and submarine volcanoes are uncertain at the present time. Gerlach (1991) estimated a total global release of 3-4 x 10E12 mol/yr from volcanoes. This is a conservative estimate. Man-made (anthropogenic) CO2 emissions overwhelm this estimate by at least 150 times."
Link to where I found this. It'll give you much of the information you need.
They also provide 10 sources to where they found this information.
Also from UND:
At Mount St Helens the maximum measured emission rate was 2.2X10^7 kg per day. As a long-term average, volcanism produces about 5X10^11 kg of CO2 per year; that production, along with oceanic and terrestrial biomass cycling maintained a carbon dioxide reservoir in the atmosphere of about 2.2X10^15 kg. Current fossil fuel and land use practices now introduce about a (net) 17.6X10^12 kg of CO2 into the atmosphere and has resulted in a progressively increasing atmospheric reservoir of 2.69X10^15 kg of CO2. Hence, volcanism produces about 3% of the total CO2 with the other 97% coming from man-made sources.
For more detail, see Morse and Mackenzie, 1990, Geochemistry of Sedimentary Carbonates. Scott Rowland, University of Hawaii Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota
Well that's exactly what I don't like about this topic. It's not really a political issue. I consider myself to be a republican, but I cannot ignore scientific studies and evidence. Do I listen to Al Gore? No. I don't think anybody should because he's not a scientist, he's a politician. People associate him with the topic and if they dislike him, they think the whole issue is nonsense.
"Think for a moment about whether it is ethical to throw a living creature into boiling water before sucking it down with a cup of melted butter"
