First things first. I'm a Black guy. I understand that Blacks worldwide have problems and need help. If I was a billionaire or a multimillionaire I would do things along the lines of what Bill Gates does to help the world be a better place.
One thing that the world, (especially Black people worldwide,) have to understand is that Black people, especially those in Africa are they're biggest determent. The primary reason that African nations are so poor and f*cked off isn't because of "Whitey," or colonialism. African nations are f*cked up because of their venal and corrupt governments.
The African continent is the biggest source of raw materials and mineral wealth in the world. Instead of Africa containing some of the world's most propserous and wealtiest nations in the world, it contains the some of the poorest. The blame for that rests with the governments of these nations.
I doesn't understand why it's the U.S. responsibility to give African nations 15 billion dollars to fight malaria. Can't that money be put to better use here in America. We have use that money to fund building projects to rehab schools in disrepair? How about using that money to fight cancer and obesity? Or better yet. Establish a program were welfare recipiants can get job training to become self-sufficient. This isn't the first time that president has done this. A few years back, he pledged 15 billion to fight AIDS in Africa. Why isn't the responsibility of the United States to improve the living conditions for the world's poor? Isn't that the responsibility of these people's governments?
If I'm paying $20 for a cigar, it better be "contraband."
Posts: 208 | Location: Villa Regis, The Empreyan Heights | Registered: January 10, 2006
I did a paper on the AIDS issue you mentioned a couple years back for my bioethics class. Basically, what any rational, logical person can see after doing the research, is that throwing money at the problem won't make a solution. The change has to be internal, because until governments and people decide, we're gonna straighten things out and get our shit together, nothing will change in the long run.
note: the following is not racially motivated in any way, simply an observation. Africa is the most ass backwards continent in the world. Every other continent and people group (more or less) have figured out how to have one central government and how to live in civilization without having a violet coup every 6 months. I realize there are exceptions in Africa, but many of the countries where the resources lie or torn apart by violence to no end.
Honestly I think we should stay out of those areas, help those who can be helped (ie, will help themselves) and otherwise worry about our own problems.
Posts: 420 | Location: Amarillo | Registered: August 15, 2006
Venal and corrupt governments only thrive where the population lives in extreme poverty, hunger, illiteracy and disease. Further, the economic burden of diseases like malaria, dengue, HIV and other infectious and parasitic disease is a staggering load on third-world countries already crushed under huge debt. It's worth the investment of a large amount of dollars now in areas including public health, medicine, ecology, agronomy and soil science if we can have reasonable hope that the investment will be a means toward an end to poverty and corruption, and help enable the rise of stable democractic trading partners modeled on successful countries like Kenya and Senegal. And we are, after all, one planet.
It's also common fallacy to think that money not spent in one endeavor would then become available for another. It doesn't work like that in real life.
'Question authority. Think for yourself. Filter out the spin. Engage elected officials critically. Make them defend what they're doing in your name. Derive the truth. Speak truth to power.'
Posts: 4066 | Location: Boston | Registered: April 16, 2005
That's great, but isn't that the responsiblity of individuals as opposed to governements? It's the role of my government to fight dieases and improve the health of Americans. Not 3rd world nations.
If I'm paying $20 for a cigar, it better be "contraband."
Posts: 208 | Location: Villa Regis, The Empreyan Heights | Registered: January 10, 2006
Since you're unconcerned with the humanitarian considerations of providing the third world with the wherewithall to fight disease and hunger, think of it as being in our own, selfish national interests to develop trading partners and loyal allies in that part of the world, and to help them become less of a drain on the world monetary system. Which is good for America.
'Question authority. Think for yourself. Filter out the spin. Engage elected officials critically. Make them defend what they're doing in your name. Derive the truth. Speak truth to power.'
Posts: 4066 | Location: Boston | Registered: April 16, 2005
I'm all of developing trade partners. As a matter of fact. I think that should be the extent of the US foriegn policy, developing and fostering trade with other countries. However, I don't my government should be for the next guy what his government ought to be doing.
If I'm paying $20 for a cigar, it better be "contraband."
Posts: 208 | Location: Villa Regis, The Empreyan Heights | Registered: January 10, 2006
What their government ought to be doing, and what we know it will do aren't related. So, for better or for worse, it's a problem for the rest of the economically developed world. Which, unless something changed since I last checked, includes us.
And what our government rightly does to promote the general welfare of its citizens, and what it does in foreign aid to promote health and development abroad aren't related either.
I think your viewpoint is a decidedly minority one among African-Americans. Remember, they aren't in the condition they're in solely because of their venal and corrupt governments, which they're unable to change; their governments are able to be venal and corrupt because of the condition they're in.
'Question authority. Think for yourself. Filter out the spin. Engage elected officials critically. Make them defend what they're doing in your name. Derive the truth. Speak truth to power.'
Posts: 4066 | Location: Boston | Registered: April 16, 2005
Those countries cant do it themselves and to the rest of the world we are already seen as war mongrels, so the US isnt going to go in and take out the corrupt governments in those countries. So we provide what we can on a humanitarian level to help those in poverty.
Come again? You know I don't speak Spanish. In English, please. What? You pooped in the refrigerator? And you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? I'm not even mad, that's amazing.
Posts: 215 | Location: Maryland | Registered: October 17, 2006
Originally posted by Omnipotens Maximus Rex: First things first. I'm a Black guy. I understand that Blacks worldwide have problems and need help. If I was a billionaire or a multimillionaire I would do things along the lines of what Bill Gates does to help the world be a better place.
One thing that the world, (especially Black people worldwide,) have to understand is that Black people, especially those in Africa are they're biggest determent. The primary reason that African nations are so poor and f*cked off isn't because of "Whitey," or colonialism. African nations are f*cked up because of their venal and corrupt governments.
The African continent is the biggest source of raw materials and mineral wealth in the world. Instead of Africa containing some of the world's most propserous and wealtiest nations in the world, it contains the some of the poorest. The blame for that rests with the governments of these nations.
I doesn't understand why it's the U.S. responsibility to give African nations 15 billion dollars to fight malaria. Can't that money be put to better use here in America. We have use that money to fund building projects to rehab schools in disrepair? How about using that money to fight cancer and obesity? Or better yet. Establish a program were welfare recipiants can get job training to become self-sufficient. This isn't the first time that president has done this. A few years back, he pledged 15 billion to fight AIDS in Africa. Why isn't the responsibility of the United States to improve the living conditions for the world's poor? Isn't that the responsibility of these people's governments?
Such a naive soul needs a bit of wisdom. The reason we have to help others is because they help us. They are the reason we are so wealthy. We use people all around the world for our wealth; and whether it's out of good heart or not, we owe less fortunate people help.
In terms of HIV, I have mixed feelings, which aren't worth getting into. A more formidable enemy is TB... a huge killer in the world. Probably the #1 killer in terms of infectious disease.
Why not help fight Malaria in Africa? Malaria has a huge impact on socioeconomics in Africa and is one major causes of loss of productivity in that region. I am sure it can be also indirectly linked to the corrupt government. If you spend all your time fighting off death due to malaria then you cant really do much to improve the government. Your concern would be to take care of yourself and your family members that are ailing. Also, malaria is a "disease of poverty" because if you cant afford windows for your home or mosquito nets at night then you are at a much higher risk. Those in the government really do not concern themselves with such a disease. It has nothing to do with being black, granted there is resistance to malaria if you have the trait for sickel cell. IE if you didn't understand that an individual of any race has an equal probability of contracting malaria in a region that is endemic. AIDS is one thing, its gonna take a ton of biological drug development which = a sh!t ton of cash. Malaria can be eliminated in certain regions given the interruption of its transmission. That been proven in the southern United States. "Whitey" has nothing to do with anything here and I am not sure why you even bring it up in your arguement.
Posts: 102 | Location: Illinois | Registered: February 12, 2006
Ask anyone involved in foreign affairs. Most aid we provide is payment for something we gained in return. A childhood friend of mine's father spent most his life in the diplomatic corp. His favorite saying when it came to foreign affairs was "nothing is as it seems".
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--Wow--What a ride!!"
Posts: 666 | Location: St. Louis, Mo area | Registered: November 17, 2006
If you need another reason as to why the US should help eradicate malaria in Africa, remember that malaria is perfectly capable of springing up in both the US ans most of Central and South America. Malaria is a mosquito-bourne illness, and the mosquitoes that can carry malaria exist in both the North and South American continents, as well as Europe, India, the Carribbean, etc. With international travel, an outbreak in Africa can spread before the symptoms appear, as it takes three weeks between infection and the first onslaught of the illness.
Originally posted by jmunro: Such a naive soul needs a bit of wisdom. The reason we have to help others is because they help us. They are the reason we are so wealthy. We use people all around the world for our wealth; and whether it's out of good heart or not, we owe less fortunate people help.
There is also a link between the effects of colonialism in Africa (which more or less ended very recently) and the present state of political affairs in Africa. Said "Whitey" is the architect of what it has become.
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
I’m just being a dik, but isn’t Africa the only continent that didn’t personally invent the wheel or the bow and arrow. These items were brought there by traders.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: OP8,
Your first shot puts him down, then you put one in his brain. Then he's dead, then we go home
Originally posted by Scottological: There is a cheap and effective solution to malaria, one that worked well in Africa until the mid-60's.
DDT.
Except it kills butterflies, which are pretty. It was thus banned by international treaty at the expense of tens of millions of lives since.
Apparently in a contest between butterflies and African children, butterflies win.
Who fed you that one? DDT kills upward on the food chain by poisoning the birds and mammals that eat the insects it targets. That's why DDT is no longer used.
Originally posted by OP8: I’m just being a dik, but isn’t Africa the only continent that didn’t personally invent the wheel or the bow and arrow. These items were brought there by traders. This says alot about their level of intelligence
You can't be serious? With all due respect, what kind of KKK-like argument is that?
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
Just adding fuel to the fire. I sure as hell am not some ass hole racist. the only race I have ever had a problem with is the human one I was just stating a fact.
My comment about intelligence was uncalled for now that I've reread my post. I will remove it.
Your first shot puts him down, then you put one in his brain. Then he's dead, then we go home
You may not be a racist (I mean, no one is against virtue) but, still, you are implying that Africans (and, indirectly, all Blacks) are less intelligent than other races because you are under the impression that no fundemental inventions came from Africa.
Well, from Black Africa, what about fire, building, stone tools, cutting tools, hunting tools, glass tools, counting, bridges... And let us not forget everything that came from Egypt (too long a list) unless you do not consider Egypt to be in Africa...
________________________ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." --FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." --FZ too
All countries in the world are increasingly inter-connected. Part of that is due to air travel, part due to globalization, etc.
But this topic asked why should the U.S. give money to help fight Malaria in Africa? Any and all diseases, if not contained, can and will spreasd world-wide.
And adding to the irony is the fact that there has never been any "free" aid given anyway. We as well as all other countries "get" something in return for what we give. It's all part of negotiating, diplomacy, agreements and etc.
And even more ironic is the amount of money in question is less than a couple of week's worth of money that the U.S. is currently squandering in Iraq.
Posts: 1884 | Location: San Francisco, CA, USA | Registered: August 20, 2003
