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Now that is funny. So how often do you kill things or take target practice with your .22?[/QUOTE] I never kill things with a .22, killed plenty of ducks though (with a shotgun). But I did target practice with them enough (and other calibers too) to know that you don't need to overdo it just because you feel a big gun makes you more safe than a smaller one. It doesn't.
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by punched:
That is funny!!! You are going to kill somebody you intend to rob from a mile away.LMMFAO!!!!
Yes a .22 caliber has the potential for killing somebody from a mile away, but you would have to lob it there.
Fiction writer, right?
Indeed, a fiction writer (and forgive the imperfections of my English, French being my language). But good fiction takes it's roots in good research and reality: that .22 thing comes from an RCMP tactical unit sniper. It is also the prefered caliber of many assasins (though at close range). The point is -- come on -- that you don't need an extremely powerful weapon to protect yourself and that you don't need to celebrate the idea of shooting somebody, even if it is legitimate defense.
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by flashman:
Now that is funny. So how often do you kill things or take target practice with your .22?
I never kill things with a .22, killed plenty of ducks though (with a shotgun). But I did target practice with them enough (and other calibers too) to know that you don't need to overdo it just because you feel a big gun makes you more safe than a smaller one. It doesn't.[/QUOTE] I think you are a little off here. To kill someone is by no means an easy task. And to kill someone with a .22 should not be a first weapon of choice for a novice. The .22 is used because once it enters the skull it will bounce around and not likely come back out. The bouncing around helps to disfigure the slug which can help the person doing the killing. To kill someone up close like this takes a lot of things to go right; which can be by luck but should be through training. When I use to travel a great deal I would always leave my wife a loaded 12ga side by side coach gun (just over 18in barrel) will double OO buckshot. I would always tell her to not even wait for the door to open just let both barrels go as soon as you see the handle turn. I would never leave her home alone with a .22 rim fire as her defense. I keep a loaded revolver as my home security weapon for a number of reasons. First unlike a rim fire .22 the odds of this thing discharging when I pull the trigger is almost absolute. Second I use a 45 long because I like the control and the fact that if I have to go through something to hit the person it really should not be a problem. Which can be a problem moving through a house after an assailant. Third, when I hit the person I want to take them down because I don’t know what gave them the courage to enter my home and I really don’t care. I just want to remove all individual will from the moment of impact. I wish you the best of luck with your .22 friend. |
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| Posts: 2413 | Location: 9th Plain of Hell | Registered: March 10, 2003 | |
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quote: Originally posted by THEMONK:
I think you are a little off here. To kill someone is by no means an easy task. And to kill someone with a .22 should not be a first weapon of choice for a novice. The .22 is used because once it enters the skull it will bounce around and not likely come back out. The bouncing around helps to disfigure the slug which can help the person doing the killing. To kill someone up close like this takes a lot of things to go right; which can be by luck but should be through training. When I use to travel a great deal I would always leave my wife a loaded 12ga side by side coach gun (just over 18in barrel) will double OO buckshot. I would always tell her to not even wait for the door to open just let both barrels go as soon as you see the handle turn. I would never leave her home alone with a .22 rim fire as her defense. I keep a loaded revolver as my home security weapon for a number of reasons. First unlike a rim fire .22 the odds of this thing discharging when I pull the trigger is almost absolute. Second I use a 45 long because I like the control and the fact that if I have to go through something to hit the person it really should not be a problem. Which can be a problem moving through a house after an assailant. Third, when I hit the person I want to take them down because I don’t know what gave them the courage to enter my home and I really don’t care. I just want to remove all individual will from the moment of impact.
I wish you the best of luck with your .22 friend.
Point well made. I am extremely impressed with your knowledge of guns. I am however a bit perplexed as to what brought you to devote so much time to develop it ? Is it really strictly out of fear ? I know that the Montreal area, where I live, hasn't got nearly as much crime as most places in the USA but then again, couldn't be because we never had a "gun cult" such as yours and, therefore, have less problems with crimes involving guns ? I try to keep an open mind and I do understand what you are saying but I believe the great challenge of our society is to get out of the terrible spiral of violence we are in, rather than augmenting it. I believe a domestic arms build up with no control and trigger happy homeowners is not a solution.
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by THEMONK:
By the way. I believe that killing is a sin and that if I do so I will burn in hell forever. You come into my house with my kids there and that is just what I will have to do.
If I come to your home, I'd rather be greeted with a cigar. Of course, I'd never go uninvited but I certainly hope this last intervention wasn't directed directly at me.
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by flashman:
Obviously more guns create more gun incidents and deaths, and you don't need some Rambo type military assault weapon or a .357 Magnum to protect your home (what is that big gun thing anyway ?) a simple .22 caliber can kill from a mile away.
Also, if I were a criminal (I am not, believe me - I'm just a writer) and wanted to rob one of you gung-ho types, I'd use the advantage of surprise to shoot you in the back (or a mile away with my .22) and then rob you. So you'd be dead and robbed, instead of simply robbed.
Just a thought, but maybe it will add to the debate.
Now this might be a problem for me. I own 48 weapons. One is an HK MP5K PDW submachine gun I have a Class III federal licence for it. I own 3 AR15's in different configurations, 2 Springfield Armory M1A's one is a standard rifle and the other a bush rifle, an HK 91, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, and a Sniper Rifle just to name a few. My problem is which one should I choose to use if I needed to end some tormented thugs life.
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"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
- Anonymous
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| Posts: 3835 | Location: Blountsville, Alabama | Registered: August 09, 2004 | |
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quote: Originally posted by flashman:
I know that the Montreal area, where I live, hasn't got nearly as much crime as most places in the USA but then again, couldn't be because we never had a "gun cult" such as yours and, therefore, have less problems with crimes involving guns ?
Yea but they make you speak French which is a crime.
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me.
-- Mike Waidelich
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quote: Originally posted by mikeyd501:
Yea but they make you speak French which is a crime.
Please, I hope you're being funny, my family has been here for 14 generations (since 1655) speaking French and damn proud of it. This is besides the point.
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Raven35031:
Now this might be a problem for me. I own 48 weapons. One is an HK MP5K PDW submachine gun I have a Class III federal licence for it. I own 3 AR15's in different configurations, 2 Springfield Armory M1A's one is a standard rifle and the other a bush rifle, an HK 91, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, and a Sniper Rifle just to name a few. My problem is which one should I choose to use if I needed to end some tormented thugs life.
As Spock would have said : "Fascinating !" I truly feel as if we lived in two completely different universes (although I am sure we otherwise have many affinities). Alabama seems probably as strange to me as Quebec would seem to you. But that's good, it is very interesting to have a different point of view. You know, my uncle has been living in Alabama for quite a while (he's an ORL, Dr. Yves Morissette) and he once told me sometihing that struck me. He said : "People are very polite in Alabama, because everybody carries a gun." It's funny, but at the same time a little bit scary, and I guess that is the desired effect. It just seems so undesirable from my point of view.
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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Those of us who own weapons/firearms own them because we can. Our country was founded on the principle that free men stay free because of guns. it may seem scary or barbaric to you or others. We don't care. We have a right to own them or to not own them. It is called free will. If and when you, your friends or someone you know decides to move here, please leave your customs and beliefs about guns at the border. If you don't want to own a gun, don't. I won't force you to get one if you don’t try and force me to give mine up. But do not try and make it like your country here. It's not and I promise it won’t be. We like our guns.
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me.
-- Mike Waidelich
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quote: Originally posted by mikeyd501:
If and when you, your friends or someone you know decides to move here, please leave your customs and beliefs about guns at the border. If you don't want to own a gun, don't. I won't force you to get one if you don’t try and force me to give mine up. But do not try and make it like your country here. It's not and I promise it won’t be. We like our guns.
You make it sound as if all Americans shared the same opinion about guns than you do. It simply isn't so. On guns, as on many issues (abortion, gays, foreign policy, etc.), your country is litteraly split in half and very polarized into opposing factions. Now, of course, it doesn't take a genius to see which side has my sympathy but I am totally aware that it's your own business. I respect your freedom (it truly honors you) and I absolutely do not want to impose anything upon you. We're just exchanging ideas here, aren't we ? And since this forum is as international as the Internet, I have the right to put in my 5 cents worth too. That being said, although I have many American friends (and own a condo in Florida), you are right : the US is not my country (as Quebec is not your nation). But we are still very close neighbors (if I left this morning in my car, we could have a beer tomorrow). You should've realized by now that you are not alone in the world. There are 10 times more non-Americans than Americans and, within Western societies, the US certainly doesn't have the monopoly on freedom (less and less, in fact). Globalization is a reality and it affects all of us. We have to live together in a world that is smaller and smaller. Confrontation of ideas is therefore inevitable but understanding others and distilling what is good in their divergent opinions only makes you wiser. It doesn't contribute to the evolution of mankind (or yourself) to shun the world and stay encamped in your opinions just because what the others think pisses you off. That goes for me as it does for you...
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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I use my guns every day and every night. They help me and my family feel safe and sleep better. That is their purpose. The gun-ho stereotyping misses the mark. Crime happens. It's a matter of having the chance to NOT be a victim. A .22 has little stopping power during a sudden close invasion of a home. For target practice fine. For sniping maybe. Again little stopping power. For a surprise mob hit, one inch away from the head--a cop friend of mine says it's very effective and relatively clean and quiet. For home protection a .40 caliber can just be pointed to freeze an attacker. Or a shot at the feet will have a tremendous shocking blast. And if one must shoot the attacker, the shot doesn't have to be perfect to put him down. But some have to crusade to take this protection away from normal law abiding people. Gun banning is a whimsical notion. As if the criminals will disarm. A lot of low caliber arguments against our rights in this thread.
"A little song...a little dance...a little seltzer down your pants!" --Chuckles the Clown
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| Posts: 1683 | Location: A hill in the Poconos | Registered: July 19, 2002 | |
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Flashman here's the deal. You are a French Canadian that does not like 50% of what the U.S. does or stands for. It is VERY transparent in the way you write. That's fine. We are all prejudice. I have no desire to debate your politics as does 99% of the people on this board. We just don't care. But why are you and others who are not U.S. citizens so interested in making you voice heard here? Your not a member of the club. You can be. Become a U.S. citizen! If you don't like who we are, what we do and how we do it...tuff! When we want your opinions about our problems, we'll invade your country and ask you.
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me.
-- Mike Waidelich
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quote: Originally posted by mikeyd501:
Flashman here's the deal. You are a French Canadian that does not like 50% of what the U.S. does or stands for. It is VERY transparent in the way you write. That's fine. We are all prejudice. I have no desire to debate your politics as does 99% of the people on this board. We just don't care. But why are you and others who are not U.S. citizens so interested in making you voice heard here? Your not a member of the club. You can be. Become a U.S. citizen!
If you don't like who we are, what we do and how we do it...tuff! When we want your opinions about our problems, we'll invade your country and ask you.
There is truth in what you are saying Mike and after this intervention, I promise that I will try to shut up. However, this is an international forum and the subject, "Use of lethal force", is of international concern. Of course, since there are mostly Americans here, the thread is generally about American issues. But I am no fool -- neither do I think you are -- and as I am a exterior witness to your adventures, I thought the debate might benefit from my point of view (which I am not alone to have). I mean, what is the point of having a discussion if everybody agrees ? Has for your question ("But why are you and others who are not U.S. citizens so interested in making you voice heard here?"), the answer is partly in the paragraph above (this is an international forum) and also in the fact that if Americans want to be an example for the world and want to intervene in other peoples' affairs (as they do), than they should at least be able to debate about shared concerns with intelligence and respect. It is not a question of being the member of a club. Again, you are not alone in the world and if you post a subject on an international forum you will get reactions from people outside your so called club. As for invading our country, might I remind you that both times you tried (1776 and 1812), you lost. So another good reason not to wait for it to voice my opinion... 
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by flashman: As for invading our country, might I remind you that both times you tried (1776 and 1812), you lost. So another good reason not to wait for it to voice my opinion...
I understood that both of those invasions were against the combined British and Canadian armies, and both dealt with the U.S. and its fight for independence. Of course, there was also the pressure in the North and West from the indians who were being supplied and prodded by the French, just to make it more of a challenge.  I have no idea how things would fare today with our current armies, and I hope to never have to find out. I prefer to have our relationship not as enemies, but as siblings -- we may argue a lot, but don't attack one or you'll have to fight both!
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Yes. I AM a pig.
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| Posts: 417 | Location: Spanaway, WA, USA | Registered: June 23, 2002 | |
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quote: Originally posted by THEMONK:
I like having flashman here and I don’t mind a little debate form time to time. I guess the problem I have with guys like you that come here from time to time is that you try to disguise haflA** sarcasm for intellectual debate. You know the guys here were just talking and discussing this issue. You see Americans are just that American we don’t hide it or want for great change we accept what we do and who we are. I guess it just kills a guy like you when a country of McDonalds eating Americans runs the world..lol
Live with it but don’t cry about it…lol
Now if you want to post on subject without bring America into it lets talk.
Thank you Monk, a little friendliness among the aguing is nice to my ears (eyes, rather). I truly do not mean to be sarcastic even though I do my best to stir things up a bit (nor am I a halfa** intellectual, that is rather unfair : I do not judge you and do not look down at you in any way). I simply like to debate ideas and in no way believe that I hold the absolute truth. Also, I have no anti-American sentiment whatsoever even if we disagree on some things. In reality, all my experiences with Americans have been positive, always. And I'd rather spend time with an American than a Frenchman any day of the year. Of course, there are all the clichés (McDonald's and such), but I try real hard not to adhere to them. All nations have strengths and weaknesses. As for running the world, well, I'm not sure about that nowadays... Even if you still carry a lot of weight...
________________________
"Tobacco is my favorite vegetable."
--FZ
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
--FZ too
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| Posts: 2485 | Location: Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec | Registered: June 21, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Baboy Ako: quote: Originally posted by flashman:
As for invading our country, might I remind you that both times you tried (1776 and 1812), you lost. So another good reason not to wait for it to voice my opinion...
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