Paul Tibbets, the pilot of the Enola Gay, died today at age 92. He had earlier requested no funeral, no headstone, lest it give his detractors a place to protest. He asked instead that his ashes be scattered over the English Channel, which he flew over many times during the war.

"I'm not proud that I killed 80,000 people, but I'm proud that I was able to start with nothing, plan it and have it work as perfectly as it did. You've got to take stock and assess the situation at that time. We were at war. ... You use anything at your disposal. I sleep clearly every night."

I would hope God and those against his actions.Would not judge him harshly for the many killed.But would rather judge him on his merits as a soldier.He followed his orders without question.In the process saved countless American lives.And ended a war that had taken too many lives.I can not imagine someone in todays world that would be able to do that.God Rest His Soul.

Paul had the toughest job on the planet. He actually had to push the button, or pull the level to drop the bomb.

I can only hope he had a cowboy hat on and was smoking a Cuban while flying that mission.

Regardless of one's views on nuclear weapons, Paul Tibbets did a difficult and thankless job well.

I hope that we never again see the need to lauch a nuclear strike against any nation or people. That being said, I believe that the strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki ultimately saved more lives - both American and Japanese - than they cost.

War is Hell

Requiem In Pacem, Paul Tibbets

RIP

quote:

I hope that we never again see the need to lauch a nuclear strike against any nation or people. That being said, I believe that the strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki ultimately saved more lives - both American and Japanese - than they cost.

It's impossible to make judgments of events without considering the context of the time in which those events happened. Hindsight allows us to recognize and learn, thereby serving us in the future, but decisions had to be made based on what was happening then. How many U.S. casualties would have been incurred in a full-scale invasion of the Japanese mainland? If you're the President of the United States, do you make the decision to save those American lives at the cost of an unknown number of Japanese non-combatants? How much did our nuclear scientists truly know about the long-term consequences of radiation? Hiroshima was one of the most tragic events in all history. But I've always felt Truman got it right.

quote:

Paul had the toughest job on the planet. He actually had to push the button, or pull the level to drop the bomb.

On a bombing run, the pilot takes his hands off and turns control of the aircraft over to the bombardier, who flies the plane and pulls the lever. In this case, it was Major Tom Ferebee from a small town in North Carolina who once had a tryout with the Boston Red Sox. He was hand-picked for the mission by Tibbetts because he was known for being a "magician with a bombsight". He died in 2000 at age 81.

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RIP


With criminal enemies like that I would have dropped more if I had more.

If I would have had them earlier I would have bombed Italy & Germany.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack White:
Hiroshima was one of the most tragic events in all history. But I've always felt Truman got it right

Exactly so.

Of course, let's not forget Nagasaki - equally tragic.

I'm just glad that I didn't have to make - or live with - those decisions.

Crazy Poet "I'm just glad that I didn't have to make - or live with - those decisions."

here here! Also, RIP

I'm thankful for Col. Tibbets and Harry S. Truman. Unlike today's administration, Pres. Truman knew how to conduct warfare.

What kills me about people who were opposed to the atomic bomb attacks and their lame ass arguements that the Japanese were going to surrender. Of course you can't take these people seriously because they know nothing about the Japanese mindset during the Second World War. These people don't seem to under that every man, women, and child was prepared to fight and die for the Emperor. In addition the Allied forces would've had to invade, take and hold every major island in the Japanese archipeligo (forgive my spelling). On top of the carpet bombing that would had to take place before the invasion. Then of course there would've been mass suicides when the Japanese would've been faced with defeat. In actuality the two bombs saved a lot of lives.

quote:

Originally posted by Omnipotens Maximus Rex:
I'm thankful for Col. Tibbets and Harry S. Truman. Unlike today's administration, Pres. Truman knew how to conduct warfare.

You really hit it on the head here. The US Military is second to none. We have the equipment and training to stand toe-to-toe with any other armed force on the planet and win.

The problem is, we're not fighting that kind of war any more. Our soldiers are not trained for the kind of battle we're fighting now, in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Our problem is that the current administration does not know how to fight or win the war of ideas - hearts and minds, if you will.

It started when there was no plan for dealing with the after-effects of our military victories in either nation. There was (and still is) nothing even close to the Marshall Plan that rebuit Europe after World War Two. Our troops on the ground are trying and succeeding in some areas, but the overall vision and support isn't there from the top levels in the administration.

Our troops are now engaged in wars that they cannot win. Even if we win every single battle, the outcome is out of our hands. Our ability to "win" depends on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan being able to set aside centuries of religious and tribal differences and build stable, self-supporting, modern governments.

And you know what? We're stuck. If we pull out, both countries will fall back into civil war, and there's no guarantee that the side we support will win. On the other hand, if we stay we're essentially propping up regimes who can stay in power only because we're still there. Which breeds resentment and adds fuel to the insurrections.

So - we're showing ourselves to be essentially impotent. All we are able to do is try to maintain some kind of status quo and hope that the locals work things out. Not exactly a position of strength.

I really hope that I'm wrong; that someone, somewhere, has a clue and a plan and the resources and support they need to make it all happen.

I have yet to see any hint that this is the case.

CrazyPoet is exactly right.

Wiser people told the President that if he went to Iraq and won a military victory, he'd own it and he'd better have a plan for what to do with it. Well, he didn't. It always seemed like they were making it up as they went along (remember Rummy's "you gotta fight the war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want"?).

Now we're losing the greater war (and please, give me no silliness about low October casualties being proof we're winning). Iraq long-ago fell into civil war. It's unable to police itself and shows no signs of ever being able to govern itself. Out of control U.S. mercenaries -- and that's exactly what Blackwater is -- are living out their favorite wet dreams, playing hired-gun cowboy throughout the country.

The Taliban is back in Afghanistan, out of their caves and getting bolder and more confident day by day. Our troops, undeniably the bravest and best in the world, are stretched thinner than they've ever been, deployments extended, rotations home shortened, morale lowered. The Army misses its recruitment goals month after month.

January 20, 2009 can't come fast enough.

quote:

Originally posted by CrazyPoet:Our problem is that the current administration does not know how to fight or win the war of ideas - hearts and minds, if you will.

The problem with America is that it has convinced itself that everyone one wants to imitate it and move there.
The fact that 20 million Mexicans want to sneak in is not a testament to the whole world wanting to be American. It is a testament to people wanting to be able to eat whatever fattens them up.

The Canadians, Australians, Japanese, Britons, French, Germans and Italians etc are staying home. We are not interested in American pie. And whether the western world's success is due to America or not is irrelevent. The exploitation of and the contempt for the third world is a shared by all. The lip service of charity, the policy of tittytainment and the traffic in arms are all there for fun and profit.

My point is that your current and past administrations in connivance with big business have perpetrated a terrific policy of using the commercial media as a propaganda tool to subvert democracy.
This is so fcking obvious I'm surprised that so few people protest this...but then again it is part of the problem that intelligent people will tow the line to pay their mortgage. The concept of self-interest at work.


I'll take it up a notch. It is in the interest of the government to have public opinion split close to 50/50 on ALL IMPORTANT issues. It is then easy to sway it to 55/45 when you want something done (like a war, like a peace). You can sway it to 45/55 when it suits the interests at hand.

What gets my goat is many people perceave the media as left-wing, anti-government and unpatriotic.
American media is nothing of the sort. It is a tool of corporate & government policy. Whether the media are happy of what they have become or not is a different question. Some cherish it. Others perhaps most are not proud of it but they have to pay the mortgage.

The average American is appalled at the anti-American bias in its foreign allies press & media. "They are against us" Americans say. This is the cherry on the pudding of proof.

The pen IS mightier than the sword. So then why use a pen when you can afford a sword or vice versa. As long as the sword does not cut you and cuts someone that you do not care about, things are dandy are they not?

I thought we were talking about WW2.

quote:

Originally posted by SHEEPSHEAD BAY:
I thought we were talking about WW2.

We were - which brought up some very unkind comparisons between our government and policies then vs our government and policies now.

I let my buttons get pushed, and shifted the conversation.

quote:

Originally posted by QM:
The average American is appalled at the anti-American bias in its foreign allies press & media. "They are against us" Americans say. This is the cherry on the pudding of proof.

When I travel outside the US, I am always a bit shocked at just how little the rest of the world thinks of us. I should know better, but it still sometimes catches me by surprise.

This is not something that is a republican or a democratic issue - administrations on both sides have contributed to this slow erosion of goodwill.

Our foreign policy has been inconsistent at best (with one exception - all through the 60s and 70s, we backed regimes that were despised by their own people).

We've turned friends into enemies and vice versa. We support a group one day, then abandon it the next.

Well, OK, we won the cold war. Sort of. The iron curtain came down, and the former USSR/Warsaw Pact nations are working through the growing pains of market economies and representative governments. The problem is that in winning that war, we essentially set the stage for the next. We poisoned the waters - our support of unpopular regimes in various proxy wars in the third world set the stage for where we are now.

We supported the Shah of Iran, then were surprised when the Iranian people despised us. We then supported Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran, helping to set the stage for almost 30 years of war and brutality in Iraq.

You can find this same story repeated all over the world.

Our foreign policy consistently favored short-term gains over long-term stability and growth. The current administration is just the most extreme and egregious example.

And we're still surprised and hurt and defensive when we hear that people don't like us much.

quote:

We were - which brought up some very unkind comparisons between our government and policies then vs our government and policies now.

I let my buttons get pushed, and shifted the conversation.


So many cigars, so little time...

I guess thats what they mean.
When they say friends should never talk.
Politics or Religion.

quote:

And we're still surprised and hurt and defensive when we hear that people don't like us much.

Yeah i guess if we minded our own business the world would love us.

quote:

Originally posted by SHEEPSHEAD BAY:

quote:

We were - which brought up some very unkind comparisons between our government and policies then vs our government and policies now.

I let my buttons get pushed, and shifted the conversation.


So many cigars, so little time...

I guess thats what they mean.
When they say friends should never talk.
Politics or Religion.

Ummmm. Yep.

It can get rather....lively...

Speaking of which, all differences aside, we all still enjoy a good cigar.

Not a bad thing, that.

quote:

Originally posted by SHEEPSHEAD BAY:

quote:

And we're still surprised and hurt and defensive when we hear that people don't like us much.

Yeah i guess if we minded our own business the world would love us.

More true than you'd expect