Well, Maddox pretty much answers any of your questions and effectively disassembles the entire premise, NobleMan. But to entertain your particular one, here something from Loose Change's entry in Wikipedia:
quote:
The documentary focuses on the combustion temperature of jet fuel (1517 °F / 825 °C) which is much lower than the melting point of steel (2777 °F / 1525 °C). This is true but irrelevant as it does not elaborate on the combustion temperatures of office equipment and open air flame which can be much higher, and it fails to note that "steel loses 50 percent of its strength at 1,200 degrees F [650 °C]." [24] While the steel components of the WTC were certified to ASTM E119 requiring them to be exposed to ~2000 °F for several hours; [25] this is a test of specific materials under controlled conditions and does not reflect the performance of "assemblies under actual fire conditions." [26]
As temperatures rose in the buildings, the remaining core columns softened and buckled, shifting much of the burden to the building's exterior. The floors, which largely remained intact outside the impact zone, reacted by pulling the exterior columns inward, adding to the extreme stress on the exterior columns. In the north tower, as fires consumed office furniture and other debris, softening the steel in the exterior columns, they gradually started to bow inward and then buckle. [27]
This buckling and the resulting floors falling could be heard as "secondary explosions" and "crashes" prior to the collapse. As the Twin Towers had strong outer shells and light weight trusses for floors, that would force the collapse inward as the towers were — structurally speaking — 95% air because of their open floor designs. It would allow the interior of the building to collapse first; so that debris, floors and elevators could fall inside the tower and blow out windows ahead of the exterior collapse. While FEMA's initial report concluded the floor trusses gave way and created a pan-cake effect; a comprehensive report by the NIST concluded the WTC collapse occurred because the columns failed first. [28] Either way the Twin Towers open floor design, greater height (wind and structural loads), their supporting columns and fireproofing being compromised by the initial impact; is significantly different from all the notable high-rise fires used as comparisons in the documentary.
Posts: 420 | Location: San Juan, PR | Registered: April 08, 2003
"I find it hard to believe there are this many people here that are this stupid."
A jury acquitted O.J. Simpson. People voted for George W. Bush. I mean, stupidity has no limit.
___________________ Santa Cabilla...patron saint of Quericæstan. VIVE COULTER (not Ann)! VIVE CPD! Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go...(Oscar Wilde)
Posts: 10308 | Location: Avenida de las Nalgas, Quericæstan | Registered: May 02, 2002
Originally posted by NobleMan: Hmm .. the question is still not answered ... who planted the explosives in the world trade centers and building 7 ?? They were brought down by plastic explosives and it would take weeks to plant the quantity needed to bring those buildings down so cleanly....you can actually see the explosions as the building is collapsing.
Your assertions are answered above...but I should point out that the silly video I viewed and commented on above also does a poor job on the "explosives" theory. They compare the WTC collapse to demolition of buildings, but they never compare it to buildings that have collapsed under similar circumstances (impacts with large fires, etc.).
Anyone who thinks it was possible to rig the building for demolition, while it was occupied, without anyone noticing that...well, all I can say is that I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you, CHEAP!
Posts: 203 | Location: New Mexico - The Land of Entrapment | Registered: May 12, 2006
^^Here's a look more in detail as to the explosives theory.
To add to the silliness and keep this going, if this was an inside job, it would have taken a lot of time and preparation, so planting explosives couldn't have happened on a single business day.
A couple of employees reported some "unusual evacuations" the days preceeding the attack.
And for the real kicker, Marvin Bush had recently sat on the board of directors of Securacom, the company in charge of WTC security.
DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN!!!!
Posts: 420 | Location: San Juan, PR | Registered: April 08, 2003
originally posted by punched: pintoirish really doesn't believe what he's spewing, does he?
No, punched. I leave "belief" to televangelists and our president (who "believes" that God ordained his election, the same way that dogs and children "believe" that the moon follows them when they're in a moving vehicle).
If you're interested in facts, though, you can verify these things easily enough. No conspiracy there: it's all a matter of public record.
___________
The world Julian wanted to preserve and restore is gone...the barbarians are at the gate. Yet when they breach the wall, they will find nothing of value to seize, only empty relics. The spirit of what we were has fled.
-Gore Vidal, "Julian"
Posts: 522 | Location: St. Albans, WV | Registered: February 03, 2004
I read this and there are many opinions. I am not a Bush man, but I am a very proud american. Wether we think things were a good idea or the worst decision ever; we are in a war that we must win. And I am not just talking about Iraq. I do not like giving up my freedoms and having a dictator government that only serves the wealthy and the greedy. However, we are there and I think we have to finish this job. It is a cultural war and we can not afford to back down to these maniacs. I will bleed U.S. until the last drop baby!
ThePig.com(Pig Pen)
Posts: 9 | Location: Panama | Registered: August 05, 2006
Is the public being told everything? I do not think so. Should they be? I do not know, I do not have all the fact.
The possibilities or capability of the U.S. government to be involved in something of this magnitude? Oh yes, I definitely believe this.
The likelihood that our or any great government could be that dirty, offensive, secretive and just down right low? Oh yes, I also believe it has been before, and will be again.
I do believe that to be the greatest superpower in the world yes the government would have to have some pretty dark, what seems to be unforgivable and outrageous events in it history that are not a matter of public record.
Was 911 a conspiracy? No, I do not think this one was. But this is only my opinion not amounting to sure knowledge.
But this was a enjoying thread to read!! That is a fact!
Posts: 251 | Location: Sumner Wa | Registered: May 08, 2002
Originally posted by Raven35031: According to the news, a recient poll shows that 1/3 of Americans believe the attack on 9/11 is a U.S. Government conspiracy and was not an attack.
I find it hard to believe there are this many people here that are this stupid.
If it was a conspiracy then there are thousands involved in this conspiracy. If this is true there is no way it could remain a big lie. One problem with conspiracys involving large numbers of people is that it could never remain a conspiracy. Some one would let let the cat out of the bag.
What do y'all think?
...I agree with what you're sayin' however, I'm dealing with my own issues right now. Like the fact that we supposely landed on the moon but, that's a whole 'nother issue for another time.
~"The freedom's I've served my country to defend are being taken away.... by my own country."
The possibilities or capability of the U.S. government to be involved in something of this magnitude? Oh yes, I definitely believe this.
CJ,
If you really believe that hundreds (or thousands) of people working for our government are capable of deliberately murdering 3,000 of their fellow countrymen why do you live here?
I guess this is part of the conspiracy too? How dumb do you have to be to not understand that these people want to kill all non-muslums everywhere in the world.
I guess its easier to believe that it's a conspiracy than to fight back!
Friggin sheepeople
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me. -- Mike Waidelich
If you really believe that hundreds (or thousands) of people working for our government are capable of deliberately murdering 3,000 of their fellow countrymen why do you live here?
Well, if they'd do that to their fellow countrymen, imagine what they'd do to those who don't live here. Maybe if we escape to the moon... but I heard that was a sham too.
Posts: 420 | Location: San Juan, PR | Registered: April 08, 2003
Originally posted by Tone_da_Bone: I think the attack on the Pentagon is a conspiracy, or in other words I really don't think a plane hit it.
I was very suspicious when I saw the damage inflicted to the Pentagon as compared to other plane crashes and the WTCs.
I also don't like the fact our government won't release security video footage of the alleged plane impacting the Pentagon. What's the security threat of releasing this footage versus the propagating videos of the planes hitting the WTCs and the people jumping from them?
What I think hit it the Pentagon was a missle. Either fired by a terrorist or one of our own war birds attacking something else.
If you really believe that hundreds (or thousands) of people working for our government are capable of deliberately murdering 3,000 of their fellow countrymen why do you live here?
Never did I say hundreds (or thousands) of people are capable of this, I only referred to our government in no amount of numbers. I was careful on the word I used like possibilities or capability and not once but twice I mentioned that I do not think 911 was a conspiracy. All I was saying is that I believe U.S. Government does have dirtying hands (I believe all great governments do/have) but again I'll say not from 911.
I live here because this is the best place to live, I love this country, I would not live any place else although I love to travel the world and to the moon if I could, I'm a Veteran who was also born and raised in the military. I'm very much a patriot.
Posts: 251 | Location: Sumner Wa | Registered: May 08, 2002
"No video needed for me. I saw the damn plane hit the pentagon. You have to be a nut to think it was a conspiracy."
Obviously, OMBilly is in on the conspiracy too...
Agree, with RyJ about no limit to stupidity. Having voted Bush in 4 out of the last 5 elections, I don't agree with his Bush example, which is more a political affiliation issue than an intelligence issue. Assumes the genius vote went for D-student Kerry, Alpha-male Gore, BJ Clinton, and the tank commander.
The OJ example goes to racism (black racism) and general stupidity. Used to be my main moron threshold test question: "Oh...you think he was innocent..." [end of serious conversation]
Now it's: "Oh, you think the Bush administration was behind 911..."
[excuse to invade Iraq, oil, Chenney, Halliburton Halliburton! HALLIBURTON! yadda yadda yadda...]
Ahhhh right...the genius vote!
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Cigoz,
"A little song...a little dance...a little seltzer down your pants!" --Chuckles the Clown
Posts: 1703 | Location: A hill in the Poconos | Registered: July 19, 2002
