1) Just how much of an ingrate a privileged American can become by constantly bad-mouthing his own country which is in a survival war against world terrorism and rabid anti-Americanism.
2) Why the propensity to share such simple-minded and ugly thought processes, albeit their couching in sophomoric pseudo-intellectual conceit.
Simply fascinating...on and on he goes...defying maturity...
"A little song...a little dance...a little seltzer down your pants!" --Chuckles the Clown
Posts: 1703 | Location: A hill in the Poconos | Registered: July 19, 2002
originally posted by joel482: It wouldn't matter if there were 100 pyramids of naked prisoners...Compared to the severing of one person's head recorded on video to show how 'brave' [depraved is more accurate] that Islamo-fascists are!
Spoken like a true apologist. You just don't get it. Interesting, though, that Abu Ghraib was once employed for the same purposes under the "savage" and "evil" rule of Saddam Hussein. So if he's wicked and vicious for plucking people off his streets and throwing them into torture chambers, how do we escape that judgement? Different people, different privileges? That would be a nice, exceptional argument--if the rest of the civilized world agreed with it.
quote:
originally posted by Cigoz: 2 things continue to amaze me about pinto:
1)just how much of an ingrate a privileged American can become by constantly bad-mouthing his own country which is in a survival war against world terrorism and rabid anti-Americanism.
Very good. Now quote Jack Nicholson's speech from A Few Good Men. You know: that sense of moral twilight that overtakes some people in times of war. It's a real crowd-pleaser.
Aside from your hard-boiled style--very tough, in a make believe sort of way--I've always loved your complete lack of perspective. The kind of hysteria that allows people like you to justify torture, coercion, intimidation of a free press, democracy on our terms, etc., without ever sensing that you're defending very un-American practices. With friends like you as the standard-bearers for American culture, it's really no surprise that so many look at us with suspicion and fear.
___________
The world Julian wanted to preserve and restore is gone...the barbarians are at the gate. Yet when they breach the wall, they will find nothing of value to seize, only empty relics. The spirit of what we were has fled.
-Gore Vidal, "Julian"
Posts: 522 | Location: St. Albans, WV | Registered: February 03, 2004
originally posted by mikeyd501: When you make your tinfoil hat, do you made it pointy or hexagon shape?
He saves time by just borrowing your tinfoil hat. And who could argue with the wisdom of that decision? Just look at the fine craftsmanship evident in your post ("do you made it"--woof).
It's so nice to have my personal suckratary back from her day at the spa. Doesn't she look lovely. When you are done checking my posts for typo and grammer, be a sweetie and fetch me some coffee.
If anyone else wopuld like to use the service of Pinto to check their work she is available anytime and she works cheap!
Ain't that right cupcake?
Now get me my coffee or you're fired...Again!
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me. -- Mike Waidelich
Originally posted by pintoirish: Spoken like a true apologist. You just don't get it. Interesting, though, that Abu Ghraib was once employed ...
Sorry for cutting you off, but I'm still waiting for my coffee! Stop pretending like you are an American who cares about this country. Everyone here knows better. Just check my spelling and fetch the coffee for cryin' out loud!
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me. -- Mike Waidelich
You too miss the point, but I'll try just this once more...
While we are not perfect, doing the wrong thing is the exception to our mode of operation; while it is the norm of our enemies...
I wasn't trying to compare every possible example; and, that was, again, the point: There is NO comparison between the way we conduct war and the way Islamo-fascists do... But, sadly, I waste my precious typing skills on those who are deaf...
"Whatsoever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce, 1924
Posts: 1067 | Location: Newnan, GA | Registered: June 13, 2005
pinto's got such a problem getting over Abu Ghraib. Saddam's mass graves--not so much. And beheadings don't seem to trouble him at all. But a few idiots going over the line with humiliation at Abu Ghraib--that he just can't live with as an American...Oh the humanity!
You know where a pathetic apologist American stands by what offends him. And what doesn't.
"A little song...a little dance...a little seltzer down your pants!" --Chuckles the Clown
Posts: 1703 | Location: A hill in the Poconos | Registered: July 19, 2002
Originally posted by Cigoz: pinto's got such a problem getting over Abu Ghraib. Saddam's mass graves--not so much. And beheadings don't seem to trouble him at all. But a few idiots going over the line with humiliation at Abu Ghraib--that he just can't live with as an American...Oh the humanity!
You know where a pathetic apologist American stands by what offends him. And what doesn't.
Sounds like France, the UN and the U.S. liberal press.
*********************** "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Anonymous
C'mon people, it's really not that hard to understand.
Remember in elementary school, when that police officer came in as a guest to talk about drugs? He talked about how terrible crack is, the evils of heroin, meth, etc.? He made it very clear that drugs are completely unacceptable, and it was clear he was genuinely vehemently against them.
But then, two weeks later, you read in the newspaper that he was caught with a stash of marijuana in his house. It's absolutely disappointing, downright infuriating. Regardless of how harmless marijuana is next to crack and heroin, it is still completely unacceptable for someone to harp about the evils of drugs and then turn around and partake in them. Whatever message that officer was trying to get across now lies in tatters and I have all the reason in the world to deeply doubt anything he has to say from now on. It is straight up hipocrisy, and few things can rile up disdain and anger the same way hipocrisy does. And rightly so.
The United States is a force of good and we can never forget what we stand for. Our enemies commit atrocities, and we must stand firmly against everything those atrocities represent, not just the physical acts themselves. We are the good guys here.
I said this on another thread, I'll reiterate it again: Some countries are so firmly set down a dark path of abuse and oppression, it's almost futile to keep voicing our rejection of their practices. No amount of denouncing and public protest will convince these countries to turn around. But when a genuinely good country slips up and commits acts that are completely against what they stand for, we HAVE to speak up. We HAVE to point out that it is wrong.
It is MUCH more effective to speak out against a good country commiting an immoral act, however low it may be on a scale of despicableness, and have it take two steps back and go down the right road, than keep on screaming at the country that's already a hundred yards down the wrong road. They're not gonna listen. It's not a matter of comparing and denouncing who's worse, there is absolutely no doubt about who is, and that's our enemies. It's a matter of not allowing the good from straying from the right path.
I am 100% behind the US as a force of good in this conflict, and in this media-intensive world it is absolutely crucial that our actions stand for everything we believe in. We, as citizens of the country, have to make sure we speak up and not condone anything less.
Posts: 420 | Location: San Juan, PR | Registered: April 08, 2003
originally posted by mikeyd501: Stop pretending like you are an American who cares about this country. Everyone here knows better. Just check my spelling and fetch the coffee for cryin' out loud!
I'm convinced a monkey is typing these posts. A monkey fueled on sweets and coffee, but a monkey all the same. Seriously, mikey, if I wanted your opinion I'd watch Fox News.
quote:
originally posted by joel482: I have said before, and will continue to say, we cannot fight 'politically correct' wars.
And you will continue to sound confused. Calling little people "vertically-challenged" is an example of political correctness; speaking against torture and cruelty is an act of simple human decency. What does the "PC" argument sound like, anyway? "Oh, if only for the good old days, when you could violate someone with a broomstick without Amnesty International getting all uppity"?
Try using that wonderful "moral compass" that conservatives are constantly yacking about, and see if you can find a moral code that's worth more than just winning elections.
quote:
originally posted by cigoz: pinto's got such a problem getting over Abu Ghraib. Saddam's mass graves--not so much. And beheadings don't seem to trouble him at all. But a few idiots going over the line with humiliation at Abu Ghraib--that he just can't live with as an American...Oh the humanity!
You can't be that sheltered. Did you even hear about the Justice Dept.'s memo defining what this administration considers "torture"? The interrogation "must be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death." The prize who drafted this memo--Jay Bybee--has since been rewarded with a spot on a federal appeals court, mirroring the experience of others in this administration who found clever ways of skirting international law.
That you can still believe that these actions--carried out by young men and women who know literally nothing about Muslims or Arab culture, or about what they would find particularly humiliating--were taken on the soldiers' own initiatives is just stunning.
Of course Saddam's abuses were troubling. And they were no less troubling to me when our government was giving his Iraq the means of perpetrating them throughout much of the 1980's. This is such a ridiculous, pathetic defense: we fund ruthless regimes, they predictably terrorize their own people, and we swoop in, using the human rights abuses that we bankrolled and lately ignored as the rationale for intervention. Maybe you're unable to relate cause to effect; unfortunately for us, most of the arab world doesn't have this problem. They've had decades to study this bizarre syllogism, know where to look for lost weapons and, more importantly, who wrote the checks to purchase them.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: pintoirish,
___________
The world Julian wanted to preserve and restore is gone...the barbarians are at the gate. Yet when they breach the wall, they will find nothing of value to seize, only empty relics. The spirit of what we were has fled.
-Gore Vidal, "Julian"
Posts: 522 | Location: St. Albans, WV | Registered: February 03, 2004
Oh, BTW Pinto, I'll be having English Breakfast Tea this morning. How was my spelling? It must be fine cause you haven't said anything. It's so nice having a secratary!
Mike D
I hate violence! I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who tries to use it against me. -- Mike Waidelich
Originally posted by Cigoz: 2 things continue to fascinate me about pinto:
1) Just how much of an ingrate a privileged American can become by constantly bad-mouthing his own country which is in a survival war against world terrorism and rabid anti-Americanism.
2) Why the propensity to share such simple-minded and ugly thought processes, albeit their couching in sophomoric pseudo-intellectual conceit.
Simply fascinating...on and on he goes...defying maturity...
pintoirish really doesn't believe what he's spewing does he?
Posts: 1346 | Location: Back in Cigar City | Registered: April 30, 2004
Yeah, that's that Loose Change documentary I mentioned earlier. I'm not a huge fan of it because of an alarming number of leaps of logic, but, without a doubt, it definitely raises questions.
Posts: 420 | Location: San Juan, PR | Registered: April 08, 2003
Originally posted by Tone_da_Bone: I think the attack on the Pentagon is a conspiracy, or in other words I really don't think a plane hit it.
I was very suspicious when I saw the damage inflicted to the Pentagon as compared to other plane crashes and the WTCs.
I also don't like the fact our government won't release security video footage of the alleged plane impacting the Pentagon. What's the security threat of releasing this footage versus the propagating videos of the planes hitting the WTCs and the people jumping from them?
What I think hit it the Pentagon was a missle. Either fired by a terrorist or one of our own war birds attacking something else.
I am not one to believe in conspiracies, but after seeing this video, I firmly believe that there are a lot of holes in the governments aliby.
Throughout the video they cherry-pick purported facts. One quick example among many was the Boeing, American, and United stock info for 09/10/2001...they never compared that to any other airline stock on 09/10/2001. For all I know, ALL airline stock and manufacturers could have had the same issues with stock, in the US or overseas. But, the video never tells you.
There was not a whole lot of investigative rigor that went into the material for this video...I give it one star out of five, and only because it has some good video clips.
Posts: 203 | Location: New Mexico - The Land of Entrapment | Registered: May 12, 2006
Hmm .. the question is still not answered ... who planted the explosives in the world trade centers and building 7 ?? They were brought down by plastic explosives and it would take weeks to plant the quantity needed to bring those buildings down so cleanly....you can actually see the explosions as the building is collapsing.
