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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
The Egyptian people are not content to see it fade, but they simply know that they can't take nothing from the USA. The USA has destroyed a whole country that was once called Iraq and turned it into the ugly mutant it is now...

If that had been our goal, we could have pulled our troops out in 2003 and saved over 4,000 US lives, so I refuse to accept that assertion!

You usually claim ulterior motives on our part for military action. What were those motives for our assistance in Bosnia, Somalia, Haiti and Kosovo (among others)?

This isn't our topic now anyway.
But you can spend all your life trying to convince me your deeds are good and angelic and you'd be wasting your time.

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
This isn't our topic now anyway.
But you can spend all your life trying to convince me your deeds are good and angelic and you'd be wasting your time.

Please answer Subchop's question Lucky, I'm curious to read your response.

No I won't answer Sub Chop's question because it is off topic. He was asking for any updates on the shooting issue and I replied.

There is no changing the way you look at yourself. You think you are the good nation, the moral high ground, the bright town on the top of the hill and all that crap. Maybe that's how you see it but how I see it is that the USA has done almost nothing for my interests, on the contrary, they are supporting Israel, my main and most fearsome enemy, they are occupying Iraq, they are threatening Iran and Syria, etc..

I am not discussing this any farther anyway, because reaching to you is like talking to a brick wall, I won't bother or tire myself.

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
No I won't answer Sub Chop's question because it is off topic.

That's typical of you. Take the cowardly way out. Even though you are the one that initially switched the topic to Iraq.

I did not switch to Iraq, I was merely giving an example.
Don't call me a coward OK? I have answered the same question a million time before, and nothing changes. You will never change your opinions and neither will I, so it's useless to discuss it any more.

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
No I won't answer Sub Chop's question because it is off topic. He was asking for any updates on the shooting issue and I replied.

Well according to you, this topic has ceased to become an active issue. Plus, since I started the topic in the first place, I think I can lead it in whichever direction I choose. Or if you'd rather, I can start a new thread.

Or is it simply that you have no reasonable answer to my question?

I do have answers Sub, but it's too complicated, too long, and too tiresome to go over it again, specially when it won't change anything.

You're asking about the US aid to Somalia, Bosnia, etc... If you look at each case you'd find a reason behind every action the US does. But I am not totally denying that the US could give humanitarian aid just for the sake of humanity, they do. But most of the time it's for political pressure.

I'll give you an example, in 2006, during the war between Lebanon and Israel, the US were supplying Israel with top notch weapons that was killing the Lebanese, at the same time they were giving aid to the Lebanese people. Do you really think this is for real?? Killing them and giving them aid at the same time??

Another example: the US aid to Egypt. Do you know how many times congressmen have used this aid as a pressure tool??

Yet another example: Just yesterday the US declared they will be arming the Lebanese army. Do you think they're arming it for the sake of loving Lebanon?? No. They are doing it simply because they want to strengthen the Lebanese army so it could stand in front of Hizbullah, the only current Lebanese force capable of defending Lebanon against Israel. So let's arm the Lebanese army and the other faction's militias (Lebanese Forces, Phalanges, Hariri's "Future" guerillas, Gunblatt's militioas, etc...) .

It's ironic how the US stresses on the UNSCR 1701 that calls for disarming all armed militias in Lebanon and condemns Iran and Syria for their support to Hizbullah, while at the same time they are supporting and arming the other Lebanese militias I just mentioned above. The only difference is that these militias do not conflict with the American interests, while Hizbullah does.

So it's not about morals, principles, values, virtues or any of these good words. It's about interests and only interests, and it works for everybody not just for the US.

Anyway, right now I am watching the news and it looks like the Lebanese parties (opposition and majority) have agreed on electing a new president and forming a new national unity governement. So things could change a bit, we'll wait and see.

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
I do have answers Sub, but it's too complicated, too long, and too tiresome to go over it again, specially when it won't change anything.

I didn't think you'd want to answer that question.

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You're asking about the US aid to Somalia, Bosnia, etc... If you look at each case you'd find a reason behind every action the US does.

That was my question - what were the US motives?

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Another example: the US aid to Egypt. Do you know how many times congressmen have used this aid as a pressure tool??

That's what allies do. We help you with this, you help us with that.

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So it's not about morals, principles, values, virtues or any of these good words. It's about interests and only interests, and it works for everybody not just for the US.

Agreed in part, but I also think some of the US' actions have a predominantly virtuous basis. For example aid to the tsunami victims, aid to Myanmar, etc.

BTW, you're a med student correct? I'm curious, where do you plan on practicing medicine?

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For example aid to the tsunami victims, aid to Myanmar, etc.

BTW, you're a med student correct? I'm curious, where do you plan on practicing medicine?

Of course the aid to Tsunami and Myanmar and similar catastrophes are humanitarian. These are major crises that nobody can stand and watch without doing anything. Let's assume that some major crisis took place in Egypt, the US would most definitely send aid, and nobody would look at this aid as anything but pure humanitarian help, no question about this.

The annual aid is another thing though.

I would like to pursue my studies in the US or Canada. Practice there maybe even reside there if I could find some place in Florida or California, anything that is not cold, or if I could find something better in Dubai or somewhere near it that would be even better. I'd always take living in hot weather with the aid of air condition over living in freezing temperatures with the heat on. I already get frost bite here in the winter and my toes turn blue, don't even want to imagine how it would look like in Canada or in some of the colder places in the US.

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

Maybe that's how you see it but how I see it is that the USA has done almost nothing for my interests

I usually don't get wrapped up in these types of discussions, but are you suggesting that for the U.S to be a "good and moral" country we have to do things that directly benefit YOU? Because that makes no sense at all.... If that is not what you mean, could you clarify a little?