Thats good to hear it's safe. I have always wanted to see the great pyramids and the valley of the kings. After getting laid off from my job a couple of weeks ago I'll have to see if the trip will still be happening. The cigar and coffee sounds great.

Sure. I'd love to show you around in Alex. You're really like it, it has a lot of resemblance to Havana.

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

quote:

Originally posted by dan954:
Lucky is it even safe for Americans to travel to Egypt? I was thinking about going over there in a couple of months. With you saying no one in Egypt likes the US it makes me wonder.

And that's where you are at fault. You are PERFECTLY safe here, and you will be PERFECTLY welcomed by everyone.

We do have a problem with the United States and how it runs the world, but we have absolutely nothing against American citizens and specially the ones who are here to visit. I see lots of Americans here in Alexandria, and on the golf course, and in Cairo they are even more.

Generally Egypt is a very safe country for everyone. Crime rates are much lower than in the US or other countries, and people are perfectly aware that American tourists are something, and their country's crappy politics is something entirely else.

It's perfectly safe, come, and you'll like it a lot. Also let me know when you come to Egypt, we can have cigars and coffee together in the Brazilian coffee shop.

Thats the funniest thing i have heard all day..

Good luck over there dan954 if you go...

You couldn't pay me $10 million to step foot in that country..


If they don't get ya on the plane ride over there..they'll get ya when you hit the ground..

Yeah and you can say that on first hand experience or is it just typical bigotry??

Hey Lucky I'm glad to hear that Egyptians are making a distinction between America and American citizens. That's what a lot of people from other nations don't realize or understand. If I ever plan a trip to Egypt (which is one of the countries that I want to visit) I'll shoot you an e-mail. As far as what cigdogg said, why would Egypt not be safe? Because there is a terrorist bombing like a year ago? That's like saying I'll never go to NY after what happaned in 2001.

You are welcomed dude, I'd be glad to see you.

The different perceptions and reactions flashing through this thread are enlightening.

What we know is only what's been reported, the investigation is only just beginning, yet (most) everyone's opinions seem to already be carved in stone.

Unfortunately, even if the reports from the ship's crew are verified, the perception in the region will still be that the crew acted irresponsibly at best, criminally at worst. If it comes out that a member of the ship's crew fired prematurely, or fired to hit rather than to warn, it will be much worse.

But we still need to wait for the investigation.

Thanks SubChop for bringing this up, and Lucky for sharing your thoughts.

It's unfortunate that there is such a gulf between the way America sees itself and the way we're seen by others. There's a great opportunity for diplomacy to bridge that gap, beginning with the next president, whoever gets the job.

I can also vouch personally for the way Americans are generally treated overseas. The vast majority of the world has no problem with individual Americans (unless we do something stupid) but they do have real issues with some of our Governmental policies and actions. I've travelled extensively in Africa and the Far East - generally well away from the tourist areas - and have never seen or experienced anything but welcome.

That being said, it's been quite enlightening to sit and talk with locals about world events and how they - and America - are perceived.

For those on this board who have not had that opportunity, I recommend that you give Lucky an unbiased ear - he provides quite a valuable window into a world that we rarely see, but that can have a real impact on our lives.

I agree CrazyPoet, there is a large gap between how "the US" feels the "world" thinks of them and what they actually think. For what it's worth I have met loads of Americans and for the most part they are GREAT people. I do not however like American policy or the attitude of "we are the US we'll do as we please". I agree with Steve Cohen that if this was a Egyptian ship in lake Michigan that fired on American citizens then there would be hell to pay. I would also be very unhappy if an American cargo ship hired by the navy fired on a Canadian vessel in Canadian water.

ANYONE from ANY COUNTRY in ANY WATERs that approaches a U.S. ship of any kind without invitiation and ignores warnings is an idiot.

I'm realy at a loss for words here. I'm glad that Lucky understands the difference between America and Americans. I don't know if the ship was right in it's actions and only an ivestigation will tell. If the ship was wrong, compensation is surely due. However, if the boat was, in fact, warned and ignored those warnings, then the ship took the actions needed to protect itself and no compensation is in order.

It's a shame that other countries have a negative opinion of the US. Whenever a country calls us for help, we help. We helped rebuild Europe and Japan after WW2. We helped Thailand when the tsunami's hit. We helped when Turkey was rocked by Earthquakes. We helped Kuwat <sp?> when they were overrun by Saddam. We tried to help the starving people in Somalia only to have one of our pilot's body dragged through the streets. However, the people did not want to stand up for themselves and gave into the Warlords. At that point, they're on their own for all I care.

Yet we deserve to have our plans and cruise ships hijacked, our embassy emloyees taken hostage, our Marine Baracks blown up, our buildings knocked down, our military ships attacked and our people killed? Here's the difference: the US goes out of it's way not to kill civilians. Do civilians get killed? Yes and that is unfortunate, but it is not something we go out of our way to do. Yet our civilians are kidnapped and beheaded by cowards who hide behind children and mentally ill? But since it's US citizens that are getting killed, that's okay...right??? As far as Isreal and Palastine go....they BOTH are wrong.

I'm not naive enough to say that the US does no wrong. We do and we have. The soldiers at Abu Garib were wrong and punished. But if you think the world would be better off without the US, then you ARE that naive. We are the first country that the world turns to in times of tragedy and dispair. Imagine what would happen if we told them, "I'm sorry, but we have our own starving people, our own floods and our own conflics going on. We are unable to help you at this time."

Lucky, I hope to visit Egypt one day. I'd love to see the Great Pyramids. I'd love to learn about it's history since it goes back thousands of years, try it's cuisine, see the achitechure in the buildings and converse with the locals. How many Egypitians would be willing to come here and do the same?

quote:

ANYONE from ANY COUNTRY in ANY WATERs that approaches a U.S. ship of any kind without invitiation and ignores warnings is an idiot.

Ditto!

quote:

Originally posted by TSF:
ANYONE from ANY COUNTRY in ANY WATERs that approaches a U.S. ship of any kind without invitiation and ignores warnings is an idiot.

I'd agree with you if this were a Navy ship. A civillian merchantman is an entirely different animal.

A Navy ship is a sovereign representative of the US Government - essentially a travelling bit of US territory.

A leased merchant vessel is no such thing. It still has a legitimate right to self-defense, but the rules are different.

I did not know that merchant ships went armed with heavy weapons?

I assume we are not giving letters of marque and reprisal anymore?http://www.switched.com/2008/03/25/airline-introduces-mile-high-showers/

My understanding is that this was a light automatic weapon, which would be appropriate for that type of ship.

SubChop - do you have details?

Well said EVP

Why can't we just leave that part of the world? Just do it and see what happens....lol
It's oil, we're still there for the oil...

Lucky, you are a nice guy. Glad to have you around.

quote:

Originally posted by Ozz1113:
Why can't we just leave that part of the world? Just do it and see what happens....lol
It's oil, we're still there for the oil...

Lucky, you are a nice guy. Glad to have you around.

I heard that there is a huge deposit of oil off the coast of Florida and the US will not drill for it because it's to close to the coast line and it would be seen from land. They're affriad it would slow down tourism. This is from a buddy of my dads that works of the coast of Texas on a oil rig.

I wish everyone would start ambushing lucky just so they can spice the board up a little lol. While i do disagree with a lot of his views, i do not agree with ambushing him everytime he states his views. I do agree with the evp on it being a load of b.s. that everytime our citizens and soldiers die for nothing or trying to help others and countries rejoice. I say we dont help them next time they need help and see how fast their opinion changes then.

quote:

Lucky, I hope to visit Egypt one day. I'd love to see the Great Pyramids. I'd love to learn about it's history since it goes back thousands of years, try it's cuisine, see the achitechure in the buildings and converse with the locals. How many Egypitians would be willing to come here and do the same?

A lot.
That's exactly what I am trying to tell you, here people can draw a line between the American policies and the American state. Millions of Egyptians would like visiting the US. If you just pass by the embassy in Cairo you'll find a lot of people waiting for their turn for a visit visa, but unfortunately most visa requests are rejected, specially for students of my age. Last summer a lot of my friends applied for visas, some got them, but a lot didn't.

(And it sucks because you have to pay an un refundable $100 for the application )

The amount of Egyptians eager to go the US are by far a lot more than the amount of Americans wanting to visit Egypt. I can grant you that.

As for saying that your soldiers sacrifice themselves to help others, I won't much agree here. Maybe the soldiers think that, and I have respect for them, but their commanders and their commander-in-chief doesn't have helping people much up on his list. It's all about interests, every country pursues it's interests regardless of the cost. It's true that you send aid whenever any crisis happens in the world, I acknowledge and respect that, but to say it's all for the sake of humanity and friendship, I don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
As for saying that your soldiers sacrifice themselves to help others, I won't much agree here. Maybe the soldiers think that, and I have respect for them, but their commanders and their commander-in-chief doesn't have helping people much up on his list. It's all about interests, every country pursues it's interests regardless of the cost. It's true that you send aid whenever any crisis happens in the world, I acknowledge and respect that, but to say it's all for the sake of humanity and friendship, I don't think so.

I wasn't talking about soldiers...I was talking about America in general, coming to the aid of the world whenever there is a crisis in another country. Other countries veiw us a smug, arrogant bullies until something happens in their country and they need help. Who's the first country on everyone else's speed dial? The United States! One day we're smug and arrogant and the next, we're expected to be the world's crying towel. And you know what....we fall for it everytime. Do you know why America is so "arrogant and smug"? Because we're getting pretty sick and tired of other countries asking for help and then turning around and cursing our existence. I wonder what would happen if we REALY became that sumg, arrogant nation that we're supposed to be???

If we were realy the bullies that the world claims we are, Afghanistan and Iraq would be U.S. properties now, Iraq would have been pumped dry and I wouldn't be paying $3.65 for a gallon of gas (I use premium because my car is getting up there in miles). But we recognize that, while those governments were overthrown, it was not the will of those people to be part of the United States. So we let them set up their government where people actualy have a say in who governs them by the way of the vote.

When I brought up the point of travel....I'd go to Eqypt to experience Eqypitian Culture. What are the resons Equptians come to the US? Is it just to sight see or are they trying to get a better understanding of American Culture? I hope one day that you do come to the U.S. and get to experience the friendliness that 99.999% of the United States has to offer. If you're ever coming to NY, let me know....I'd love to show you around the Big Apple.