quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

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The US Navy has every right to protect its ships. If you don't want to get shot at, then follow orders.

You have no rights giving me orders in my waters. Plus the ship isn't a US military one and carried no signs what so ever suggesting it was chartered by the US Navy.

This is why I did not want to bring this issue here. The same people I expected have made the same replies I expected from them. One sided view of everything, thinking they can own the world and rule it the way they want just because they are Americans.

This is why most of the world hates the United States. It's this arrogance and this attitude that made the whole world fed up.

If it wasn't for the U.S. alot of other counties would really be hurting with no aid from us.

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
Yeah and whose story is that?? The ship crew.
I won't trust their story a bit. The survivors from the accident say they were not warned.

Again we won't know until the investigation is complete, but why is that version any harder to believe than the one you're relaying? Isn't it just as likely that the surviving crew smells a large compensation if they say they never heard the warning? Or that they are actually terrorists, willing to sacrifice one of their own to raise international fury? Why are either of those possibilities beyond consideration in your mind?

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Originally posted by SubChop:

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
It's extremely arrogant to be passing out orders for other ships the way you suggest when you are IN MY WATERS!!

Lucky, granted this ship is not a US Navy vessel (but rather one temporarily chartered by the Navy), but considering what happened to the USS Cole, what methods would you propose for protecting US assets in foreign waters? One side of the account is that they used a verbal warning (in Arabic) and only then fired warning shots - we won't know until the investigation is complete. What more could have been done, if that turns out to be the truth?

Hey Subchop. I appreciate your care to hear my perception of the event. As I said I would have made a topic about it but I was positive the same group of users would jump and blatantly defend the American action whatever it was (and they already did).

I am not saying that the US navy vessels should not protect themselves. Usually when military vessels are passing, nobody is allowed to get into the water. They could have simply declared someway that they were affiliated with the US navy and they would have gotten the protection given to all US navy vessels.

But to move on unmarked then shoot at people while they're doing their jobs is totally unacceptable.

Now that it has happened, and I do believe it is a mistake (but one driven from arrogance and inconsideration not from human error) the best that could be done is to conduct a thorough investigation, a formal apology from the president of the United States to the widow of the man and a huge compensation.

The man was poor anyway, and with him dead, I doubt his family has anyone to support them. That's the least the US could do, that's if they really care about human beings and human rights like they claim day and night.

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Isn't it just as likely that the surviving crew smells a large compensation if they say they never heard the warning? Or that they are actually terrorists, willing to sacrifice one of their own to raise international fury? Why are either of those possibilities beyond consideration in your mind?

The first possibility could be true, and they deserve a compensation anyway. It's the Americans fault they were unmarked as being affiliated with the military.

As for the second possibility, no, it isn't true. The guy who died was a well known to the authorities of the canal and he has been in this job all his life. They do not allow people in this job unless they are known. The terrorist scenario is not possible at all, specially that the ship appeared like a normal civilian cargo ship.

And of course you can realize how miserable this man's life was by having such a crappy job. Moving on a small boat all day long begging passengers to buy from him.

OK. So now the next step is to fully investigate. Lucky, in your opinion, IF the results of the investigation show that the crew acted appropriately, will the majority of Egyptian people believe that result?

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
Yeah and whose story is that?? The ship crew.
I won't trust their story a bit. The survivors from the accident say they were not warned.

Until a thorough investigation is completed, you can't say one way or another. It seems like there were other boats involved--their accounts should be helpful.

This is going better than expected.

Imagine if an Egyptian ship passing through the NY harbor opened fire on the local boat traffic because they got to close. You would be pissed.

You guys are just leading Lucky on, and he is taking the bait, how mature.

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Originally posted by SubChop:
OK. So now the next step is to fully investigate. Lucky, in your opinion, IF the results of the investigation show that the crew acted appropriately, will the majority of Egyptian people believe that result?

Unfortunately no.

Nobody here trusts the USA anymore. After what is happening in Iraq and Palestine, nobody is ready to believe anything from the US, and they kind of have a right to that. When you hear the American administration talk about human rights and peace all day long then you look at what Israel is doing to the Palestinians under US permission, and what Iraq has turned into, add to that a not so good history for the US in the region, you learn not to have faith or to trust the US anymore.

The US has lost all it's popularity in the region, and specially in Egypt. I remember a survey conducted a couple of years ago showed that less than 2% of Egyptians have favorable views of the US.

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Originally posted by Steve Cohen:
Imagine if an Egyptian ship passing through the NY harbor opened fire on the local boat traffic because they got to close. You would be pissed.

Sorry, that makes no sense. That's like asking Lucky how he would feel if in a bizarro world if AQ was American and we blew up huge towers in Egypt.

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Originally posted by Steve Cohen:
This is going better than expected.

Imagine if an Egyptian ship passing through the NY harbor opened fire on the local boat traffic because they got to close. You would be pissed.

You guys are just leading Lucky on, and he is taking the bait, how mature.

Exactly.
Will the American public take ANY excuses for such an incident??
You'd have members in the congress calling for breaking ties with Egypt, and you might even hear some calling for military action.

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

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Originally posted by dan954:

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

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Originally posted by KKL:
After what happened to the Cole, I would advise all vessels in international waters to adhere to the directions given by a US Naval ship.

1-The Suez canal is not international waters. It is Egyptian water.

2-It's extremely arrogant to be passing out orders for other ships the way you suggest when you are IN MY WATERS!!

If it were to me, I'd ban ANY military ship from passing in the Suez Canal. Specially American ones.

We didn't nationalize the canal to be shot by vessels from half way across the world and get killed in OUR WATERS.

It don't matter where the ship is at, if it thinks it is being attacked it should do what needs to be done to make sure it is not attacked.
They say he was warned and it looks like he didn't listen like the rest of the boats did. If all the other boats moved away they must of heard the warning so want else are you supposed to think when one boat keeps coming? Let it get even closer so it can set off a bomb.

Yeah and whose story is that?? The ship crew.
I won't trust their story a bit. The survivors from the accident say they were not warned.

Hey, I have a very small suspicion that you are planning to kill me. Can I shoot at you please??

Who says you can trust the survivors story? Look at all of the other boats, they heard everything just find so it looks like the survivors might be lying.

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

Unfortunately no.

Nobody here trusts the USA anymore.

You can throw yourself into that pot.

This thread is more about Lucky's perception of the US and not of the canal shooting...because let's be honest, it doesn't even matter who was really at fault.

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Originally posted by KKL:
Befriending America is in your countries best interst. Trust me. Without the US, you would be a lot worse off.

This is the attitude Lucky was referring to. By the way, the US's status as a world superpower has been diminishing rather quickly as of late.

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Originally posted by Steve Cohen:
This is going better than expected.

Imagine if an Egyptian ship passing through the NY harbor opened fire on the local boat traffic because they got to close. You would be pissed.

You guys are just leading Lucky on, and he is taking the bait, how mature.

Bingo.

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Originally posted by sobek:
let's be honest, it doesn't even matter who was really at fault.

Um... huh?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It just doesn't matter who was at fault! W00t!

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You can throw yourself into that pot.

What is that supposed to mean?

Lucky is it even safe for Americans to travel to Egypt? I was thinking about going over there in a couple of months. With you saying no one in Egypt likes the US it makes me wonder.

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Originally posted by dan954:
Lucky is it even safe for Americans to travel to Egypt? I was thinking about going over there in a couple of months. With you saying no one in Egypt likes the US it makes me wonder.

You think anti American sentiment is specific to Egypt alone? Try multiple other places in the middle east, not to mention Europe and Asia.

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Originally posted by dan954:
Lucky is it even safe for Americans to travel to Egypt? I was thinking about going over there in a couple of months. With you saying no one in Egypt likes the US it makes me wonder.

And that's where you are at fault. You are PERFECTLY safe here, and you will be PERFECTLY welcomed by everyone.

We do have a problem with the United States and how it runs the world, but we have absolutely nothing against American citizens and specially the ones who are here to visit. I see lots of Americans here in Alexandria, and on the golf course, and in Cairo they are even more.

Generally Egypt is a very safe country for everyone. Crime rates are much lower than in the US or other countries, and people are perfectly aware that American tourists are something, and their country's crappy politics is something entirely else.

It's perfectly safe, come, and you'll like it a lot. Also let me know when you come to Egypt, we can have cigars and coffee together in the Brazilian coffee shop.