Or others close to the situation. I'm talking about the shooting in the Suez Canal yesterday by a US cargo ship (chartered by the Navy) toward several small boats that refused to move away from the ship. Accounts seem to differ between the locals and those sailors onboard the vessel. Just wondering what the local opinions are?

I was thinking about bringing the subject here, but on a second though I voted against it because it would be useless. The majority of the users here have a very one sided view of issues and view anything that the United States does to be sacred and unquestionable.

But now that someone else brought it up, I will have to comment.

The story, as I have read on several websites and as it has been recounted by the victim's brother and friends on the phone yesterday in the famous daily talk show "Cairo Today", is about a small boat whose owner approached the American cargo ship. This is a very common practice in Suez, there are a lot of boats in the Suez Canal whom their owners make a living by selling things like cigarettes, water bottles, Egyptian antiques etc.. to the passengers of the ships passing the canal.

The guy who died was 29 years old, as his brother said (or 27 as some sources on the internet say) and he has inherited the boat and the job from his father. Meaning, he's an expert. He knows the rules and knows that military ships are not to be neared on. Actually when military ships are passing, no other boats are allowed to enter the canal, and are usually accompanied by helicopters and other coast guard boats to protect them.

The American ship passing was NOT a military boat, and did not have any markings that gives any hint it was affiliated with the US Navy. So, the man was doing his job and approached the ship, when (according to the American story) he was warned in Arabic to back off, then "warning shots" were shot.

According to the two persons who with the victim on the boat and who have survived the accident, the American boat did not warn them and they were shot right away.

You want my opinion??

This ship should have been stopped right away and the crew questioned in front of an Egyptian attorney (with all respect and with the presence of the American ambassador). Because if such an incident happened in the US, if an Egyptian ship shot an American citizen, you know very well that the world would have been up in arms, but since we have no price, and since we are lead by a clown called Husni Mubarak who is an absolute American tool, nothing will happen. And the man's death will just pass unquestioned and unavenged like those who were killed in Sinai by Israeli border patrol just less than a month ago.

The United States will get away with it, like they have gotten away with everything. They can always get away with anything they do, Israel as well. They have used the "shoot first ask questions later" mentality and they will get away with it.

The ship has now left the canal into the Mediterranean, and the incident will pass like Abu Ghreib has passe, like the Gaza beach shelling has passed, like the Gaza "Shoah" has passed and like the shooting of Egyptian citizens in Sinai by Israeli border patrol has passed. But trust me, what remains is the extreme anti American sentiments everybody in this region has and what remains is the pressure that will eventually lead to explosion in the face of everyone. The US already is the 2nd most hated country in Egypt (Israel is the first) and this certainly won't help make the American picture any better.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LuckyBreak,

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
The majority of the users here have a very one sided view of issues and view anything that the United States does to be sacred and unquestionable.

Cue Parsley in

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
The United States of America is as it has always been. They have no value for anything and they will just do anything. And who to blame them?? If we have a governement who will not do anything, then how do we expect them to care???

So then all the other boats that heard the warnings and saw the flares just happened to veer off and move away just by pure coincidence...clearly the US boat was full of trigger happy cowboys.

You sure are quick to make judgement. There is an investigation going on now...you have no idea what the US will do/decide, but you sure have no qualms making sweeping generalizations and bad mouthing the US.

Just before anyone accuses me of changing my words, I have edited my original post before seeing what Sobek wrote.

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You sure are quick to make judgement. There is an investigation going on now...you have no idea what the US will do/decide, but you sure have no qualms making sweeping generalizations and bad mouthing the US.

Oh, so what will the investigations decide??
Will they apologize and pay a huge compensation to the man's widow and 2 children?? Or will they just let themselves off the hook using the usual "self defense" BS??

The incident happened on Egyptian soil and the investigations had to be in Egyptian court.

From the AP:

"The boats were hailed and warned by a native Arabic speaker using a bullhorn to warn them to turn away. A warning flare was then fired," the embassy said Tuesday. "One small boat continued to approach the ship and received two sets of warning shots 20-30 yards in front of the bow."

Obviously neither of us were there, so you can only go by reports...but the stories indicate there was more than one boat and the one that was fired upon did not veer off after verbal warnings and flares were used.

At worst, this was bad aim from a warning shot. A mistake...assuming the news reports are accurate. If they are not, then that is another matter. But as of now, this was not some slaying as you want to play it out as.

After what happened to the Cole, I would advise all vessels in international waters to adhere to the directions given by a US Naval ship.

quote:

Originally posted by KKL:
After what happened to the Cole, I would advise all vessels in international waters to adhere to the directions given by a US Naval ship.

1-The Suez canal is not international waters. It is Egyptian water.

2-It's extremely arrogant to be passing out orders for other ships the way you suggest when you are IN MY WATERS!!

If it were to me, I'd ban ANY military ship from passing in the Suez Canal. Specially American ones.

We didn't nationalize the canal to be shot by vessels from half way across the world and get killed in OUR WATERS.

quote:

Originally posted by KKL:
After what happened to the Cole, I would advise all vessels in international waters to adhere to the directions given by a US Naval ship.

Yes THANK YOU!!!

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
1-The Suez canal is not international waters. It is Egyptian water.

Okay fine, you can call it Egyptian waters. But if Egypt ever tries to close the canal to international shipping and trade, it will no longer belong to Egypt. So, for now, you can call it yours.

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2-It's extremely arrogant to be passing out orders for other ships the way you suggest when you are IN MY WATERS!!

The US Navy has every right to protect its ships. If you don't want to get shot at, then follow orders.

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If it were to me, I'd ban ANY military ship from passing in the Suez Canal. Specially American ones.

Well, its not up to you. If it were up to me, I would cut off all foreign aid to Egypt and I would stop selling your country our military technology and weapon systems. But that's just me.

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Well, its not up to you. If it were up to me, I cut off all foreign aid to Egypt and I would stop selling your country our military technology and weapon systems. But that's just me.

Go ahead.
We never get anything of that aid of yours. It all goes to Mubarak and the ones around him. At least you can stop blackmailing us with your dollars.

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Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
Go ahead.
We never get anything of that aid of yours. It all goes to Mubarak and the ones around him. At least you can stop blackmailing us with your dollars.

Befriending America is in your countries best interst. Trust me. Without the US, you would be a lot worse off.

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The US Navy has every right to protect its ships. If you don't want to get shot at, then follow orders.

You have no rights giving me orders in my waters. Plus the ship isn't a US military one and carried no signs what so ever suggesting it was chartered by the US Navy.

This is why I did not want to bring this issue here. The same people I expected have made the same replies I expected from them. One sided view of everything, thinking they can own the world and rule it the way they want just because they are Americans.

This is why most of the world hates the United States. It's this arrogance and this attitude that made the whole world fed up.

Verbal warning, warning flare, other boats turned away according to the reporting on the TV this morning, and then the warning shots directed toward the one boat that kept coming. The ship can't wait to see if the small boat has a bomb on it.

My best guess is the warning shots very easily could have ricocheted off the water and it could hit someone. The warning shots should be "off line" to avoid this. Frankly, the dude on the boat should have known better.

This is very similar to the iranian situation where it looks like the security was being tested openly. Multiple boats, verbal warning ignored, then warning shots not ignored. Difference here is the offending boats were making verbal threats over the radio, and pushed it pretty far.

I give the benefit of the doubt to the vessel acting in self-defense.

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

quote:

Originally posted by KKL:
After what happened to the Cole, I would advise all vessels in international waters to adhere to the directions given by a US Naval ship.

1-The Suez canal is not international waters. It is Egyptian water.

2-It's extremely arrogant to be passing out orders for other ships the way you suggest when you are IN MY WATERS!!

If it were to me, I'd ban ANY military ship from passing in the Suez Canal. Specially American ones.

We didn't nationalize the canal to be shot by vessels from half way across the world and get killed in OUR WATERS.

It don't matter where the ship is at, if it thinks it is being attacked it should do what needs to be done to make sure it is not attacked.
They say he was warned and it looks like he didn't listen like the rest of the boats did. If all the other boats moved away they must of heard the warning so want else are you supposed to think when one boat keeps coming? Let it get even closer so it can set off a bomb.

quote:

Originally posted by KKL:

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
Go ahead.
We never get anything of that aid of yours. It all goes to Mubarak and the ones around him. At least you can stop blackmailing us with your dollars.

Befriending America is in your countries best interst. Trust me. Without the US, you would be a lot worse off.

Befriending is something, and what Mubarak is doing is something else. Mubarak is a total tool, an absolute clown. I have no problem with maintaining good relations with the US but not on the cost of my citizens and my national security.

quote:

Originally posted by KKL:

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
Go ahead.
We never get anything of that aid of yours. It all goes to Mubarak and the ones around him. At least you can stop blackmailing us with your dollars.

Befriending America is in your countries best interst. Trust me. Without the US, you would be a lot worse off.

VERY TRUE!!!

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Originally posted by dan954:

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:

quote:

Originally posted by KKL:
After what happened to the Cole, I would advise all vessels in international waters to adhere to the directions given by a US Naval ship.

1-The Suez canal is not international waters. It is Egyptian water.

2-It's extremely arrogant to be passing out orders for other ships the way you suggest when you are IN MY WATERS!!

If it were to me, I'd ban ANY military ship from passing in the Suez Canal. Specially American ones.

We didn't nationalize the canal to be shot by vessels from half way across the world and get killed in OUR WATERS.

It don't matter where the ship is at, if it thinks it is being attacked it should do what needs to be done to make sure it is not attacked.
They say he was warned and it looks like he didn't listen like the rest of the boats did. If all the other boats moved away they must of heard the warning so want else are you supposed to think when one boat keeps coming? Let it get even closer so it can set off a bomb.

Yeah and whose story is that?? The ship crew.
I won't trust their story a bit. The survivors from the accident say they were not warned.

Hey, I have a very small suspicion that you are planning to kill me. Can I shoot at you please??

quote:

Originally posted by LuckyBreak:
It's extremely arrogant to be passing out orders for other ships the way you suggest when you are IN MY WATERS!!

Lucky, granted this ship is not a US Navy vessel (but rather one temporarily chartered by the Navy), but considering what happened to the USS Cole, what methods would you propose for protecting US assets in foreign waters? One side of the account is that they used a verbal warning (in Arabic) and only then fired warning shots - we won't know until the investigation is complete. What more could have been done, if that turns out to be the truth?