Marriage should be about love, not gender. I was talking with a friend not too long ago about how his mother would react to the concept of gay marriage and he said that his elderly Roman-Catholic mother would stand up and fight for the right of people in love to marry. Now maybe this is because she has an openly gay grandson, but knowing how the Roman-Catholic church teaches and this is a huge break from their teachings surprised me.

In my own family, my younger brother is openly gay, and he and his partner have been together for 15 years. Longer than many “conventional” marriages last.

For my own part, I go back and forth if this is something that should be regulated by legislation or just left to individual choice.

DISCLAIMER: the following is nothing more than my own opinions, not to be construed for a stance; proclamation or anything other than morning rambles on this topic.

Incest: moral issue, some values appear to have been misplaced.
Non-homosexual-same-sex marriages: in the example given, brothers wishing to marry. With regards to part of the argument for same-sex marriages are emergency/icu room visitations, a life partner is not allowed in because they are not related.


Raven, as far as marrying your horse, if you can afford the bridal suite, go for it!

Alan

Saying that gay people should be able to enter into 'unions' but not 'marriage' is semantic hairsplitting. It's the same thing.

Comparing gay marriage to marrying your sister or a horse is ridiculous. And bigoted. They are not the same thing. At all.

If your church doesn't condone gay marriage, it shouldn't have to perform them, but there are churches and clergy that support marriage between adults who love each other and happen to be of the same sex. So saying that it's a religious thing doesn't fly.

People used to make the same kind of bigoted comparisons to animals when people of color in this country were fighting for the same rights as the rest of the country. And those people thought they sounded reasonable at the time. But now, we know they were just a bunch of racist rednecks.

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Originally posted by bill1967:
Saying that gay people should be able to enter into 'unions' but not 'marriage' is semantic hairsplitting. It's the same thing.

Comparing gay marriage to marrying your sister or a horse is ridiculous. And bigoted. They are not the same thing. At all.

If your church doesn't condone gay marriage, it shouldn't have to perform them, but there are churches and clergy that support marriage between adults who love each other and happen to be of the same sex. So saying that it's a religious thing doesn't fly.

People used to make the same kind of bigoted comparisons to animals when people of color in this country were fighting for the same rights as the rest of the country. And those people thought they sounded reasonable at the time. But now, we know they were just a bunch of racist rednecks.

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Whats a redneck Bill??? Are all rednecks racist???

two girls kissing i'll pay all day long......two guys get the pail of hot water

Sorry folks, didn't mean to entice anyone.

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Originally posted by the_stogemiester:

Whats a redneck Bill??? Are all rednecks racist???

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Although I'm sure you're familiar with the term, here's the definition from thefreedictionary.com

red·neck (r d n k )
n. Offensive Slang
1. Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
2. A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude

I was leaning more towards #2.

I wouldn't use the term towards anyone who isn't a bigot.

Bill...by using the term redneck in a perjorative way, you yourself can be considered a bigot by some...

That's true. Good point.

I'm trying to be more Christ-like. But it's hard with all the goddamn rednecks.

Bill- I and probably my entire family (all us southern farmers) fall into class #1. Don't consider myself as intolerant. Well I have to admit I have little tolerance for folks trying to boink any of my farm animals. But if you want to start classifying entire classes of people based on their job and geographic location so be it!! Maybe you have some of the same DNA as the gay bashers??? Anyway, next time you are in the "country" stop by the old doublewide and have a ceegar. We'll make sure you get some sunblock so you don't get a tag!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: motorcyclenut,

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Originally posted by bill1967:
That's true. Good point.

I'm trying to be more Christ-like. But it's hard with all the goddamn rednecks.

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WTF! Trying to be Christ-like, then you say Gods name in vane. What the hell kind of hypocritical biggot are you. You just made a Big @$$ out of yourself just like your very first couple of posts Bill. If you cant post intelligently dont even post. I think you just tried to slam people from the south. Come on over to my doublewide as well but first you gotta wade through all the weeds in my front yard. Then watch out for all the old rusty ford pickups and farm implements. After you wade through all the Johnson grass and decaying metal you got to get all the dogs off my front porch. Come on in and sweat a while because I have no a/c, in the mean time we all can listen to Hank Sr while I fix you a TV dinner in the microwave. YES we rednecks might not have running water or a/c's but we have microwaves. Thats what you seem like to think all people from the south are and guess what Bill, your from the south toooo! So pick up your pants Bill because you crack is showing.

You gotta luv butt cleavage!

Stogie--

1. "I'm trying to be more Christ-like. But it's hard with all the goddamn rednecks."

That's was a joke. Ha ha. You of all people here should've got it. I thought it was pretty funny.

2. I thought O Man really did have a point.

3. I'll put my working class creds up against yours any day.

4. I bet you a cigar that you use the Lord's name in vain at least as much as I do on annual basis.

5. I said I meant def. #2, or that I was leaning that way, which doesn't disparage Southerners. Not necessarily anyway.

6. I've got a problem with bigots not poor people or Southerners, and I don't appreciate when people cloak their bigotry in religion, especially one whose main theme (if you go by the New Testament) of love and tolerance is exactly the opposite of the fear and intolerance that spawned those anti-gay marriage laws.

7. Watch out with that butt cleavage talk. Someone might think you're checking my butt out. You sexy beast.

Chill out folks. Remember, if you still got wood you have a hobby you can enjoy all by yourself. If youdon't have wood you can always smoke a nice Cuban cigar.

Right on, Bill.

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Originally posted by raven35031:


Bottom line I should be able to marry anyone I want as long as they agree to marry me. If I want to marry my horse that is my business and not the government. I do not want to marry my horse by the way this was ment to be an example only.

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You say that you are not gay so I'm assumung the horse you don't want to marry is female, correct? Does your horse know how you feel? Does she think you are going to marry her? Is she pregnent? Is there another horse?

Why are you putting this poor horse through all of this...Just tell her for God's sake and get it over with! Give her the chance to move on and find a new man while she still has her looks.

A horse walks into a bar and the bartender says "Why the long face?"

one main point you guys left out....what about same sex couples adopting kids?? IMO (from a therapists standpoint) there is no way a child can come from such a situation well adjusted......

I say if u wanna get married to yur "significant other" go ahead, but dont drag others into your decision

MrR

I am just one small part in this society, I know I can't change anything, but I just don't like to see same sex marriage happening. It all come down to the (moral) standard of the society, and the value the society share. The shared value can change, it is a changing world after all. For example, many years ago whipping/caning were legal punishment, but since the change of the value of the society, it was made illegal. I know someday, things may change against my wish

However, I think gay people are doing the wrong thing here. They should not try to change the law before changing people's value because the law is largely based on people's shared value.

To me, marriage should be about love, also about building a family. A family should be a husband and a wife. A divorced couple no longer have a family. A divorced parent with a kid is called a "single parent" family. Two husbands or two wife is not a family, I don't know what it is called.

It is not the issue of civil rights. No discrimination here, but I don't think anyone took away their rights of getting married. find a different sex and they can get married.

Just so you know, I am not red neck or anything. I came from Asia with very different religion, value, culture, language (obvious) and moral standard than most of you here.

Rogers, I take it you are from the school of “homosexuality is learned”? I disagree with your statement that “there is no way a child can come from such a situation well adjusted......” how many not so well adjusted come from families where there are male and female role models? There is as much argument for what you are implying as there is against it. All any parent can do is the best that they can do regardless of their gender orientation. For the record, neither my father nor stepfather were great role models, I turned out well in spite of them, my own father marvels at how wonderful of a father I am to my daughter. My wife came from an abusive background; her father ruled the family with an iron fist. She is a wonderful parent.

Verboy, I agree with you that marriage should be about love and building a family. Why should that only be permitted to heterosexuals? Why can’t same sex couples be considered family? Are your brothers not your family? I have friends that are as close as family, hell I have a friend who I have known for 25 years, I consider him a brother, he *IS* my family. Family is not just about marriage or blood; it is about bringing those into your life who you wish to spend your days with. As far as the divorce thing, I come from a divorced family, my parents are happily married but not to each other.

There are many definitions for the word “family”, and some of them even fit for same sex couples. Here is a link: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=family



Alan

I too think marriage is about family, and the whole debate is about protecting the role of the family in scoiety and affirming its importantce when it seems to be continually under assault. Families raise the future generations, well or not, and they deserve support as we all will pay the price if they break down (as happens all too often). But, it can get a little difficult with limiting marriage to this definition. A hetero couple that plans to have no children, should they be married? What are they contributing to society? How is that different than a same sex couple? Is it better from the adoptee's perspective to be adopted by a same sex couple as a baby or spend 18 years in an orphanage with no family to call your own? Who will be more well adjusted? These are the real alternatives if you take the logic out a few more steps...

This whole thing centers around being "recognized" as married by the government, in order to recieve benefits.

I personally believe that marriage is a personal/religious choice that should have nothing to do with the government at all. No one, gay or straight, should recieve benefits because they are married (personal choice).

If you choose to be married, fine, but why should a guy who makes the same as me be taxed less because he is married and I'm single? Joking aside, that is just biased against single people. Same with the "child credit". Now we are doubly biased against single people with no kids.

Want to get married or unioned? Fine, but cancel all the benefits from the government for that status. We all should be equal, married or single, parents or not....

dragoman

dragoman...married people pay higher taxes than two single people living togther, everything else being equal...married people with children pay lower taxes than married people without children because they have more dependants...you single people are the ones getting the subsidy on income taxes. If you own property and have no children in school, then you are subsidizing public education in most states, just as it was subsidized for your by your parents peers...surely we don't want to limit education and reinvestment in the next generation that will need to make money to pay our SS benefits, the ultimate inter-generational subsidy?