I've got to say you guys (both sides) are killing the mood in this place with all of the political discussions and bickering.
Now, I never minded the occassional political discussion, but they look like they've just taken over now. Plus, they seem to be posted just to get a reaction from someone of the opposite view.
I have yet to see one person change their opinion based on any of these discussions.
B.A.S.E. Secretary and #0013 <(0)> R.O.C.A #14 Foreign Affairs Minister - BS
Originally posted by The EVP: I'd like to see a Politics Forum created for all of that, but the powers that be don't want to do that.
That wouldn't be a terrible idea. The cigar forum does seem to be being high-jacked by political-based threads, most of which I stay out of.
Personally, I'm here for cigar opinions, cigar insights and general cigar-talk. __________________________________________________
"It's the sense of touch. In any real city, you walk, you know? You brush past people, people bump into you. In L.A., nobody touches you. We're always behind this metal and glass. I think we miss that touch so much, that we crash into each other, just so we can feel something."
Posts: 675 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: March 26, 2008
I've always liked the idea of creating forums for "Cigar Talk Only" and "Anything But Cigars", but the owners of the board have decided, as is their sole right, that it's not a good idea.
I must say, I do understand the frustration of those members who joined strictly for cigar talk, but also in fairness, there are the Cuban, Non-Cuban and Group Review forums, and they're comparatively sparsely attended.
'Question authority. Think for yourself. Filter out the spin. Engage elected officials critically. Make them defend what they're doing in your name. Derive the truth. Speak truth to power.'
Posts: 4023 | Location: Boston | Registered: April 16, 2005
Actualy, what hurts this forum are all the bickering that goes back and forth with people insulting each other, people getting told to use the Search feature all the time, etc...
I've been on a couple of cigar forums, one of which has a seperate forum for politics and one that does not allow political discussions at all. To be honest, there is never a shortage of discussions to participate in nor a shortage of topics.
While I do respect the owners of the board and their right to run it how they see fit, that does not mean I have to agree with it. I wonder how many people DO NOT join CA or participate because of the political discussions and how they sometimes become personal. If the owners want "Cigar Talk" to be their "catch-all" forum, then why don't they also get rid of the Golf, Review and Food/drink/travel forums also?
I have to be honest, there have been many times where I've contiplated leaving CA because of it. However, there are a few people here that I like to talk to and who's opinions I value.
---------- Back by request:
Mom: "Twenty dollars for a cigar?!?! Why don't you just set fire to a $20 bill?"
Response: "Get a $20 bill to taste like a Davidoff and I'll light my entire paycheck on fire!"
Posts: 1560 | Location: Medford, NY | Registered: July 18, 2007
I find that if you put a few people on ignore that it makes your browsing experience much more palatable - that function is brilliant and reached in your profile page
_____________________________________ The journey of a thousand miles sometimes ends very, very badly.
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. -H. L. Mencken
Posts: 1434 | Location: Bugtussle, MS | Registered: August 24, 2006
I dont see why people need to take these things personally. Are we not grown adults? Do we completely lack the capacity to have a civilized political discussion? If people remember that not everyone is going to agree with them, and that is their right, and that it is nothing personal, I think the political discussions work just fine here. I will never understand why a grown adult would resort to name calling just because someone disagrees with them. I put the blame squarely on us, and if we dont have enough self control to have a civil discussion, we dont deserve any forum at all.
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"Let's stop the hysterics about the freedom of Cubans – which is not our government's responsibility – and consider freedom of the American people, which is. The point being: it is Americans who live in a free country, and as free people we should choose whom to buy from or where to travel – not our government."
-Ron Paul
Posts: 509 | Location: NJ | Registered: December 21, 2003
Originally posted by sobek: What really kills forums are boring discussions of the same 10 cigars over and over and over and over.
If you don't like something, don't read it. This forum was always heavily political. If anything, the politics have gotten lighter.
+1
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Originally posted by gasdoc: I dont see why people need to take these things personally. Are we not grown adults? Do we completely lack the capacity to have a civilized political discussion? If people remember that not everyone is going to agree with them, and that is their right, and that it is nothing personal, I think the political discussions work just fine here. I will never understand why a grown adult would resort to name calling just because someone disagrees with them. I put the blame squarely on us, and if we dont have enough self control to have a civil discussion, we dont deserve any forum at all.
Veryy well Said Elliot
__________________________ Jersey Fresh!
Posts: 839 | Location: NJ | Registered: February 20, 2007
As I said, I don't mind the political discussions. I like it when people can share various points of view. But I think it's gone beyond sharing points of view. Just my opinion.
B.A.S.E. Secretary and #0013 <(0)> R.O.C.A #14 Foreign Affairs Minister - BS
Originally posted by TSF: I understand what csmithnj is saying where some seem to be baiting...
Yes. You could call it baiting. People can be provocative, but I think it is just to generate discussion. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is trolling in most cases. But if we can see the baiting so plainly, why do people feel the need to take the bait? And if they do, they should have the capacity to respond in a mature, well thought out retort that attacks the issues, not the person. Thats all I'm saying.
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"Let's stop the hysterics about the freedom of Cubans – which is not our government's responsibility – and consider freedom of the American people, which is. The point being: it is Americans who live in a free country, and as free people we should choose whom to buy from or where to travel – not our government."
-Ron Paul
Posts: 509 | Location: NJ | Registered: December 21, 2003
understand what csmithnj is saying where some seem to be baiting...
Jee, I can't imagine who would'nt be too busy to do that...
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Yes. You could call it baiting. People can be provocative, but I think it is just to generate discussion ... But if we can see the baiting so plainly, why do people feel the need to take the bait? And if they do, they should have the capacity to respond in a mature, well thought out retort that attacks the issues, not the person. Thats all I'm saying.
And you're absolutely right, gasdoc, in a perfect world. Sadly, as I'm sure you've observed on these boards, there are a few who will not tolerate "mature, well thought out" responses, but instead lash out in a rage at those who don't see the issues exactly like they do. Their tactics in these instances are to deflect the pertinent arguments rather than answer them, and instead launch into personal attacks on whoever disagrees. And they are never wrong.
The baiting is done deliberately, with this in mind -- to draw a person into engaging them, after which they can then continue the personal attacks in the absence of any ability to debate the issues and only the issues.
'Question authority. Think for yourself. Filter out the spin. Engage elected officials critically. Make them defend what they're doing in your name. Derive the truth. Speak truth to power.'
Posts: 4023 | Location: Boston | Registered: April 16, 2005
I agree a separate politics forum would be helpful, but I have asked, and the operators of this forum like it the way it is. So be it, they own it. I guess they figure it increases their traffic.
With the hundreds, if not thousands of political BBs available, I often wonder why these things are posted on a cigar BB as most appear to be provocative solely for the purpose of being provocative.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--Wow--What a ride!!"
Posts: 656 | Location: St. Louis, Mo area | Registered: November 17, 2006
Originally posted by sobek: What really kills forums are boring discussions of the same 10 cigars over and over and over and over.
If you don't like something, don't read it. This forum was always heavily political. If anything, the politics have gotten lighter.
There's something to that. The discussions have gotten a bit more civil over time.
I don't think that there are enough voices on any side of the issues to completely drown out or drive off opposing viewpoints, which means that bullying tactics are simply not going to be effective.
I like having a place to talk about whatever issues may come up - politics, cigars, news, whatever.
It's good to have Presley and Jeebus and Lucky and Sheep and Jack (just to name a few) to bounce ideas off of. They aren't going to let me get away with half-baked assumptions, which forces me to be more thoughtful and less reactionary, and to actually listen to what's being said.
If everyone had the same voice, we'd just be another bunch of "dittoheads" - and that doesn't serve anyone's best interest.
So many cigars, so little time...
Posts: 2934 | Location: South of the Mason/Dixon Line | Registered: September 24, 2007
