"Since there seems to be more activity on here
i thought i would start this thread on here as well. i am really interested in seeing people's thoughts on this. Especially those who went thru this time."

Aloha muchachos & good morning,

Did any of y'all catch the "Missile Crisis" documentary on the History channel last night? It was about the whole strategy behind Nikita Khrushchev's objective and senseless propoganda of using Cuba as a tool to aim his missiles at the united states. Now, Khrushchev used the idea of "protecting" Cuba from the U.S. and its imperialistic ways.

Obviously, there is a lot more detail, but it was amazing, to me, how Kennedy responded to this crisis. More amazing was how close to nuclear holocaust we actually came. But the idea that Castro allowed this really pisses me off!!! i dont blame Kennedy and our government at all because of the potential outcome that COULD HAVE BEEN. i think any US president at the time would have more or less, no choice BUT to respond the way Kennedy did. But, at that point in our country's history, Kennedy was the chosen man.

saying all of that, i think after last night, i actually support the embargo now more then ever. i mean come on, there are ways to "PURCHASE" things whether they are legal or not. We all know that, obviously.

We studied this subject in high school from a teacher who was a kid at the time. He kind of gave us a sense of what was goin on. But he gave it to us from his perspective, which again, being, he was a child. Also, i was more worried about the chics in the class then hearing about history. Now that i am an adult, matured and a father of 2, watching this doc. last night, i FELT the urgency behind the whole crisis. it really captivated me and gave me the whole sense of more or less of the urgency at hand, kind of spooked me a bit into what MAY HAVE happened. We were SO close to Nuclear holocaust. Thank God Kennedy dug his heels in, and called out Khrushchev. Was it a bluff, perhaps, but still, Kennedy and our staff were ready to defend at all costs.

so, in short, do i support the embargo now? YES! ABSOLUTELY YES!!!! Will i continue purchase Cuban Cigars? I plea the 5th.


thought i'd share this with y'all this morning and see if anyone else saw this last night and their thoughts on it. thanks for reading.

-FS

Whether a MWH ICBM was 3 minutes or 30 minutes from its target in the 60's did not really matter, there was no known technology to take one down once the button was pressed.

Both sides had 1000's of ICBM pointed at each other. The point is, do not go back there, which is exactly what is happening now. The US is threatening the SU's sovereignty, by assisting the break away provinces of the former USSR, and Putin is retaliating by buzzing NATO's allies with their long range bombers.

He is also instilling a sense of nationalist fascism, which is odd as the Russian's are Slaves, and were on Germany's chopping block in the 40's.

Next will be the missile build up and constant probing of air space boundaries, leading up to a confrontation.

Learn form the past.

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Next will be the missile build up and constant probing of air space boundaries, leading up to a confrontation.

Learn form the past.

You can only postpone the inevitable so long.
The Soviet Union must be stopped at all means.
Here in Europe we live with the threat everyday.
And welcome American intervention.
Unlike you in Canada that have never seen war.
Many Europeans either lived through the 2nd world war or grew up on the stories.
Funny i have noticed many Canadians criticism on American politics.
Funny in the sense that because of Americas political agenda.
Canadians are safe and sound sharing the same continent.

I was a Senior in High School when this happened. I and many of my friends were ready to join the military to fight the Russians and Cubans.

Viet Nam was just a small police action at the time (but was about to esculate) and the World War II mentality of most high school and college age students was fresh in our minds as we were the "Baby Boom" generation, our fathers and mothers had lived WWII and impressed upon us the need to support America.

I think the action that JFK took was the right one.

I wonder what the future holds with the emerging nuclear threats from 3rd world countries and their terrorist allies.

Doc,

IMHO, the only answer for the 3rd world countries and their terrorist allies is for us, and OUR allies, to keep pressing on the technology front. Such as Anti-missile defense, Star Wars, not the movie of course, but similar fronts as that.

it is just a matter of time before the terrorists are able to get their hands on a nuclear device, or a dirty bomb. Hopefully, we will be ready when that time comes.

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Originally posted by SHEEPSHEAD BAY:
[QUOTE]
Unlike you in Canada that have never seen war.
Many Europeans either lived through the 2nd world war or grew up on the stories.
Funny i have noticed many Canadians criticism on American politics.
Funny in the sense that because of Americas political agenda.
Canadians are safe and sound sharing the same continent.

My mother is from former Yugoslavia and was subjected to the German occupation of Ljubljana, and many of my relatives fought for the Partisans. Most were captured and subjected to the most inhumane torture, clearly visible by body deformities due to bloody brutal beatings at the hands of fascists. I personally met them on a number of occasions, saw their wounds and listened to their war "stories".

My other grandfather (Cohen) fought his way from Sicily to Berlin, encountering some of the most brutal hand to hand combat imaginable. Almost every very Italian or German soldier he met blew their last breath in his face.

I have a reasonable idea what war is about.

Canada sacrificed a lot to help win, but Yugoslavia also was brutalized, but by far the USSR was clear loser here.
See here

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My mother is from former Yugoslavia and was subjected to the German occupation of Ljubljana, and many of my relatives fought for the Partisans. Most were captured and subjected to the most inhumane torture, clearly visible by body deformities due to bloody brutal beatings at the hands of fascists. I personally met them on a number of occasions, saw their wounds and listened to their war "stories".

My other grandfather (Cohen) fought his way from Sicily to Berlin, encountering some of the most brutal hand to hand combat imaginable. Almost every very Italian or German soldier he met blew their last breath in his face.

I have a reasonable idea what war is about.

Well then Mr. Cohen you of all people should realize why the United States has such a firm stance. When countries namely the Soviet Union display aggressive behavior in this or any other part of the world.All through Europe there are missiles pointed toward any country that has in the past or now displays this sort of agrees ion.Not because anybody wants war but rather to deter it.Remember what Winston Churchill used to say "If it where not for America there would be no England".

Agreed, but Russia has a rather large nuclear arsenal, and based on previous fatality figures from WW2, they have no problem sacrificing 10 or 20 million people. In todays figures that would be 50 to 100 million people.

Like the Chinese, their political system is here to stay, and we have to understand their past, in order to be successful in the future.

This is true on both sides many a politician /leader of a country has had the passing thought of surviving a limited nuclear war.This of course all for the good of man kind. Scary ain't it? Total peace for the world is just an unattainable illusion or though it seems.Until we all learn to respect the life God has so graciously blessed us with.Well need i say more.

I'm like Doc. Except I was a Junior in High School and my parents were on business in D.C. for that week. Which for that reason made it even more ominous.

The genius of the Kennedy administration was the fact that the Soviets sent two cables to Washington. The first was concilliatory and the second much more belicose. Robert Kennedy had already established "back door" talks with the Soviets in the Russian Embassy so felt he had a pulse on the pressure being put on Kruschev. What he decided to do was respond to the first cable, which set the stage for the eventual backing down by the Soviets, with the face-saving concession of removing U.S. missiles in Turkey. These missiles were already obsolete and provided little strategic importance to the U.S.

Kennedy was under tremendous pressure from the joint chiefs, and Gen Curtis LeMay in particular to bomb Cuba. I've always wondered if Nixon (who lost to Kennedy in the '60 election - for those of you too young to recall) could have withstood that pressure and how different things would have been.

Now let's smoke a cigar!

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l

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Kennedy was under tremendous pressure from the joint chiefs, and Gen Curtis LeMay in particular to bomb Cuba. I've always wondered if Nixon (who lost to Kennedy in the '60 election - for those of you too young to recall) could have withstood that pressure and how different things would have been.

You mean the election that Joesph Kennedy the old boot legger with ties to organized crime bought.Nixon would not have had any pressure there would have been no botched bay of pigs under his tenure.Kennedy created all of those problems for himself.As for how different things would have been who knows i will bet you though there would have never been an embargo.

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Nixon would not have had any pressure there would have been no botched bay of pigs under his tenure.Kennedy created all of those problems for himself.As for how different things would have been who knows i will bet you though there would have never been an embargo.

While botched it certainly was, the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion (a CIA plan initially green-lighted by Dwight Eisenhower, we tend to forget) was an altogether separate issue from the missile crisis of October 1962. One didn't generate the other, though it may have influenced politically the way it was handled. Whether or not the operation would have had a different outcome if Nixon had been president, we can only speculate. It may well have.

But the missile crisis was hardly a problem of Kennedy's own making. Had he won the 1960 election, Nixon would have faced the same unacceptable fact as JFK -- Soviet missiles in Cuba, 90 miles from the American mainland, and a high-stakes poker game with a desperate (as it turns out) Khrushchev. Whether or not he would have caved to the demands of Gen. LeMay to launch a preemptive nuclear strike on the island, again, we have no way to know.

But remember, in the 1960 campaign, JFK had run on a platform of being tough on the Soviets, much more so than Nixon. Since he was well aware his "cold warrior" image was badly damaged by the Bay of Pigs, and he knew the "missle gap" was a myth (albeit one he chose to perpetuate to the public), he must have been tempted before deciding -- wisely, I think we can all agree -- on the blockade.

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Originally posted by Docbarry:I think the action that JFK took was the right one.

I wonder what the future holds with the emerging nuclear threats from 3rd world countries and their terrorist allies.

Kennedy`s and Kruschev`s actions resulted in a very reasonable outcome.

The future...the thing about a small atomic weapons.
What really really matters is where it explodes and where the people we care about are.

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While botched it certainly was, the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion (a CIA plan initially green-lighted by Dwight Eisenhower, we tend to forget) was an altogether separate issue from the missile crisis of October 1962. One didn't generate the other, though it may have influenced politically the way it was handled. Whether or not the operation would have had a different outcome if Nixon had been president, we can only speculate. It may well have.

Come on now are you high?
The bay of pigs had nothing to do with the build up of missiles.
It gave the Russians the right to come to the aid of another Communist country to stop the American aggression.
It was a reason for them to start a war and make them selves not look like the aggressor.Of course we all know the story is a little different.
It was as important to the Russians as the bombing of pearl harbor was to the Americans.
No longer did they have to sit on the side lines Come on Jack the 70's are over stop dropping acid.

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The bay of pigs had nothing to do with the build up of missiles.
It gave the Russians the right to come to the aid of another Communist country to stop the American aggression.
It was a reason for them to start a war and make them selves not look like the aggressor.Of course we all know the story is a little different.

That's a misreading of history, mostly, and points out that having only partial knowledge leads to incorrect conclusions.

Krushchev's own memoirs indicate the Politburo, having recently learned that the so-called "missile gap" was, in fact, a gap in favor of the United States, authorized placing the missiles in Cuba in order to counter that growing imbalance in our favor in the development and deployment of strategic missiles -- the Soviet economy didn't offer the option of a buildup or advancing the technology by industrial and scientific means. So, the hoped-for Soviet endgame was actually for the U.S. to offer to withdraw its ICBMs from Turkey and Italy, in return for a removal of theirs from Cuba.

The "protection of another Communist country" after the Bay of Pigs was simply the public face they decided to put on it, to soothe their nervous allies. There was certainly never any intention of "starting a war" they knew with certainty would mean their destruction, as Khrushchev's later actions proved and his memoirs restated.

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Originally posted by Steve Cohen:
Canada sacrificed a lot to help win, but Yugoslavia also was brutalized, but by far the USSR was clear loser here.
See here

When everyone is saying so many casualties of the war in Iraq, I would love to show them this this diagram that steve is talking about, it says alot. Now compare how many americans died in World War II, compared to how many Americans have dies in Irag. And no, im not taking anything away from the soldiers that have died in Iraq. Just noting that the number is not even remotely close.

You guys are missing the point here. If the Kennedys had come on much stronger with the Russians instead of being meek and always wanting to negotiate, the Rusians would have have had more respect for us and maybe even feared us. Then the missle crisis might never have happened.
But with that said, What the hell are we still doing with an embargo against a country that no longer has a big brother like the Russians to back them up. The main export of Cuba is sugar and they export most of it to Europe. They seem to be doing just fine without us in most of their exxports. Why don't we just make nice with Raoul and get the Embargo lifted on cigars. I don't care if we never get their sugar. I just want to get in on some of that fine tobacco.

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Originally posted by ocpeddler:
You guys are missing the point here. If the Kennedys had come on much stronger with the Russians instead of being meek and always wanting to negotiate, the Rusians would have have had more respect for us and maybe even feared us. Then the missle crisis might never have happened.
But with that said, What the hell are we still doing with an embargo against a country that no longer has a big brother like the Russians to back them up. The main export of Cuba is sugar and they export most of it to Europe. They seem to be doing just fine without us in most of their exxports. Why don't we just make nice with Raoul and get the Embargo lifted on cigars. I don't care if we never get their sugar. I just want to get in on some of that fine tobacco.

i agree! let me talk to Obama, Hillary & even McCain. whoever agrees gets my vote. Dont forget some of their coffee too.

Pilon espresso is some of the best espresso i have ever tasted. THE GENUINE pilon that is.

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The "protection of another Communist country" after the Bay of Pigs was simply the public face they decided to put on it, to soothe their nervous allies. There was certainly never any intention of "starting a war" they knew with certainty would mean their destruction, as Khrushchev's later actions proved and his memoirs restated.

Oh yeah now i got it silly me.
Its like that conspiracy thing about the assignation of JFK.
Thanks to the Warren commission it was made perfectly clear that Oswald acted alone.
Now how many of us believe that one.
I would guess just about as many who believe the found memoirs.
If America had not botched the bay of pigs and was friendly with the government in charge.
The Russians would have been forced to shove the missiles up there a**
They would not have been welcomed in Cuba.
As i said before Kennedy created his own troubles.