quote:

Originally posted by mikeyd501:
You miss the point. Everybody should have the right to say their peace about politics. But when you sell tickets to your concert and your going to spew your political views as well as sing songs, put it on the ticket. That way you are not walking into it blind.

Would you be fine with the idea of hearing someones polital view while you were buying a car from them? Think about being in a car dealership for 3-4 hours buying a car and hearing them go on and on about Clinton this or Bush that.

Sing the songs and shut up!

And by the way, no one said anything about making laws to prevent people (artists included) from expressing their opinions. Unless we can pass that law and it would only apply to you!

Well said, Mikeyd501! Free speech and freedom are not free. Someones father, mother, brother, sister,etc., paid a price with blood, sweat and tears (to coin an old rock group's name). I'm with you - play the music and leave your political agenda at home or the local coffee shop. And, troops don't pick wars, politicians pick wars. At least no one on this board is slamming the troops.

That's my 2-cents worth of free speech.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyd501:
Mike D...Making Liberals eat their words!

What's the world coming to, Mikey? I used to be able to spot a Republican a mile away. Then again, if it walks like a Republican and talks like a Republican...even if it thinks it's a Democrat...I mean, what the hell is Toby Keith talking about? He's a really conservative Democrat? That's like a Dixie Chick saying she's sgainst the President, against the war, but only because she's a really liberal Republican.

I don't understand what's the big deal about a few seconds of an artist saying whatever the hell he/she wants to say about politics at a concert. It's incredibly easy to dismiss and ignore.

Admit it, what really riles you up is the liberal slant to those statements.

I totally agree. Artists have a total right to free speech in a free society. Their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters,etc., also paid a price with blood, sweat and tears for that prerogative (to cite FirstRecon).

quote:

Originally posted by El Mamerro:
I don't understand what's the big deal about a few seconds of an artist saying whatever the hell he/she wants to say about politics at a concert. It's incredibly easy to dismiss and ignore.

Admit it, what really riles you up is the liberal slant to those statements.

I don't have to admit anything. Where were these rock stars making comments before they became rock stars? Don't you see what I am getting at here?

quote:

Originally posted by flashman:

quote:

And by the way, no one said anything about making laws to prevent people (artists included) from expressing their opinions.!

I know, I was just making an exageration to underline the fact that we should not try to censor artists in any way. Other than choosing to buy their stuff or not.

That seems to be your M.O., exagerating when you should stick to the facts and the topic.

Will you be hijacking this thread with your gay advances toward me?

quote:

Originally posted by flashman:
I totally agree. Artists have a total right to free speech in a free society. Their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters,etc., also paid a price with blood, sweat and tears for that prerogative (to cite FirstRecon).

I'm sure those same fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters,etc., taught them better manners than to slur people on stage, on screen etc. There is a way to get your point across without sluring a politician, or an average Joe on the street.

It's the slur that is so pious (I'm using a dichotomy in terms here). I don't care what party the politician is, a slur onstage by a famous group is what I call taking advantage of your numbers. I thought liberals believed that too? You, too, flashman, are missing my point. It's like we are a couple of Republican and Democrat Senator trying to agtree on something. Ain't gonna' happen. Too busy arguing to do the peoples business. Hell I don't belong to any party.

So, at the risk of making ALL of my fellow forum readers angry, I'm not going to beat this dead horse any longer; we agree to disagree. My last word, but I enjoyed the discussion and your views.

---That seems to be your M.O., exagerating when you should stick to the facts and the topic.

Will you be hijacking this thread with your gay advances toward me?

Mike D---


Well, suggesting that artists should just sing and shut up sounds a bit like promoting censorship of said artists. Therefore, making an elipse to underline that aspect of this threads argumentation seemed adequate.

As for my gay advances, your too much "first degree" my friend. Lighten up. I was just pushing your buttons with that mariage thing. Though I'm sure my wife, ex-wife and three sons would have loved to be at the ceremony...

quote:

Originally posted by FirstRecon:
I'm sure those same fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters,etc., taught them better manners than to slur people on stage, on screen etc. There is a way to get your point across without sluring a politician, or an average Joe on the street.

It's the slur that is so pious (I'm using a dichotomy in terms here). I don't care what party the politician is, a slur onstage by a famous group is what I call taking advantage of your numbers. I thought liberals believed that too? You, too, flashman, are missing my point. It's like we are a couple of Republican and Democrat Senator trying to agtree on something. Ain't gonna' happen. Too busy arguing to do the peoples business. Hell I don't belong to any party.

So, at the risk of making ALL of my fellow forum readers angry, I'm not going to beat this dead horse any longer; we agree to disagree. My last word, but I enjoyed the discussion and your views.

Very interesting point. And it does address the dimension of self-censorship. Where and when to say what. The importance of respect. Obviously, faux-pas happen when you don't measure that aspect. But faux-pas cost dearly to the artists that make them. Dixie Chicks and all...

The best will learn from their errors, adapt and survive. The rest will fade away. But let artists be free...

quote:

Originally posted by flashman:
The rest will fade away. But let artists be free...

Fu@! the artists!

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyd501:

Fu@! the artists!

Now that is what I call a flabergasting argument. Truly sensible and brilliant.
Questioning the importance of art and artists in human societies are we ?

Yep! And I am farting in your general direction too!

quote:

Originally posted by aholsber:
If I went to a concert, and got the performer's political agenda foisted at me, I would leave and demand my money back. When I go to a concert, I want to hear music, not political statements made by someone who is overestimating their selfimportance.

Alan

<Just my $0.02>

Very well said, my opinion as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Extensioncord:
Here's the thing...you guys only seem to complain when it's a LEFT WING musician spouting nonsense. MikeyD failed to mention Toby Keith, Merle Haggard, 3 Doors Down or any of the other right wing artists who spew equally simple-minded stuff. All in all, it doesn't bother me either way...art has to stand for something to be good. I'm not going to stop buying Merle Haggard or John Mellencamp CDs because they use their notoriety to open a discussion on the issues.

I don't think I have ever heard any of those artists bashing anyone on the left. I have heard them express their conversative opinions through their music and elsewhere but never in a way that bashed someone else.

On the other hand the left sided artist who like to push their view on us via their performances make it a point to bash people.

Case in point, I went to an event a few years ago that had a Toby Keith concert as part of the festivities. There was no political rant , nor even just a snide remark toward/against anyone. There was plenty of troop-supporting, patriotic stuff, but nothing that either side of the fence would balk at.

Hollywood and the aforementioned performers - its all about indoctrination. Most couldn't care less about your free speech and your vote - except that if you're young, or lower-income, or gay, or blah-blah-blah, it's assumed that you're ripe for voting their way. All they have to do is rile your butt up off the couch long enough to 1) buy their music, and 2) vote with your anger, instead of your knowledge of all issues. In that order, of course.

The original subject of this thread was about attending a concert for the music, and not suffering the political barrage as part of the admission price. I don't care to be taken advantage of as if I'm a "captive audience" for two hours. I guess I'll have to choose my concerts wisely.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyd501:
Yep! And I am farting in your general direction too!

Now you are citing Monty Python too (from the Holy Grail movie)... There is hope for you yet.

Freedom of speech is a constitutional right. It not only includes artists who make political statements, but also cigar enthusiasts who need to voice their opinions about said artists. Mike D, sungunner, and FirstRecon I disagree with your opinions on the larger issue, which I believe to be censorship. The reason I disagree with you is only to protect your rights guaranteed to you by the Bill of Rights. There are plenty of censored countries in the world you could move to. I'll leave you with a quote from George Washington:
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

quote:

Mellencamp told the Harveys casino crowd, in effect, that it was dedicated to everyone hurt by policies of the current Bush administration.

Is this really "bashing" though?

quote:

Originally posted by kdhoffma:
Freedom of speech is a constitutional right. It not only includes artists who make political statements, but also cigar enthusiasts who need to voice their opinions about said artists. Mike D, sungunner, and FirstRecon I disagree with your opinions on the larger issue, which I believe to be censorship. The reason I disagree with you is only to protect your rights guaranteed to you by the Bill of Rights. There are plenty of censored countries in the world you could move to. I'll leave you with a quote from George Washington:
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

Dear, dear Mr kdhoffma et. al. To all. I was going to ignore this thread after my last post, but her we go. Flashman, kdhoffma, El Mamerro, et. al.

I know all of you left leaning folks think we right leaning folks are picking on you. Well, we are. It always is OK for a left leaning person to spout whatever they want and whenever they want, (i.e. at an "artists" concert). But, when we right leaning types put in our $0.02, we are picking on you. Yes, the US Constitution provides for freedom of speech. Most of you complaining are not even living in America; are not Americans at all. So what are you preaching about. Did you, yourself, PERSONALLY ever fight for this country, or your own country, or join the USA in fighting for othr countries. NO, you did not from the intonations I perceive in your posts. Don't preach unless you are a preacher. They are allowed to be pious.

Now, let me take this a step further and see if youreally will practice what you preach and respect my free speech, which I am about to spout! I am not a politcally correct person. I call a spade a spade. So far all I hear are a bunch of left wing whiners and "artists" (my french friend from quebec in particular) spouting what they want and hammering anyone leaning to the right. Like the conservative has no right to free speech and we just pick on everyone who doesn't agree with us. I think you have it the other way around. A person should have enough common sense to know when and where to make political statements. It's called personal diplomacy.

Let's see if the owner of the magazine sponsoring this forum, and you lefty's, respect and allow the free speech I that this righty is about to release. I am an American. I served two-tours in Vietnam (a war I didn't even believe in), received two purple hearts and myriad other decorations. I used the GI Bill to go to college and become a civil engineer. I spent twenty-years overseas (on a cane) helping developing countries create infrastructure for their people. Many of these countries actually hate the USA, but they wanted help and we were there building what they could not build. Schools, hospitals, roads, water and sewer plants, pipe lines, etc. Helping others is what Americans do. I'm not bragging here, I am just trying to say I earned the right to speak my mind. I didn't earn that right playing a guitar, or writing a poem, or saving the white owl; I earned it the old fashion way.

Let's go a step further in seeing if, in fact, this website and you leftys will allow me a bit of free speech. Fuch You and the horse you rode in on (pardon my ending a sentence in a preposition). Who the hell are you dipshits to tell anyone that everything you leftys say is correct and everything we rightys say is not correct. Free speech. Shit, you whiners wouldn't know free speech if it hit you in your collective asses. A person who is sensitive to others rights, as you leftys say you are, should have enough damn sense to know when to talk and when to shut up and keep your views to yourselves. If you wanted to push FirstRecon's button, you were fantastically successfull. I would truly like to know how many of you personally fought for the right of free speech. C'mon, tell me.

All you can do is pick, whine, pick, whine, pick, whine, adnauseum. Get a life, stop being a titty baby, quit crying so much, find a new hobby.

Now, I have just spoken my mind, which is my right to free speech. In doing this have I hurt anyone's feelings? Have I disrespected your country, ethnicity, freedom, beliefs, "artist's freedom, to condemn because you are an "artist". Yes I have. You asked for it through your stupidity of regurgitating shit that does not matter to anyone. No one wants to hear your shit. I do have free speech to say these words; correct!?!

I'm looking forward to hearing your indignation and diatribe from my free speech. That is, if the Admin of this site doesn't kick me off the forum for using my free speech. Wake up and smell the coffee you dickheads. Stop being whiney girly-men!

That's my free speech for the day. Thanks and good day.

FirstRecon and proud of it

quote:

Originally posted by kdhoffma:
Freedom of speech is a constitutional right. It not only includes artists who make political statements, but also cigar enthusiasts who need to voice their opinions about said artists. Mike D, sungunner, and FirstRecon I disagree with your opinions on the larger issue, which I believe to be censorship. The reason I disagree with you is only to protect your rights guaranteed to you by the Bill of Rights. There are plenty of censored countries in the world you could move to. I'll leave you with a quote from George Washington:
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

I just posted a reply to your girly-man post and to prove that there isn't even free speech on this website, the post did not go out because "trigger words" had to be approved by Admin before it could be posted. So, I don't even have free speech on this website without it being censored and most likely not be posted because I tried to use my free speech.

So, you leftys continue to preach free speech while Admin censors my post, or, more likely, kicks me off of t