Marine Names Murtha in Suit

I hope the attorneys are doing this pro bono for the publicity it will generate, because if these soldiers are in fact blameless and they have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to clear their names, then shame on everyone involved.

And then they wonder why enlistment is declining. You throw a bunch of people into a bad situation without the necessary resources or support, and then throw them to the wolves at the first opportunity.

More than anything else, this is a reminder that when the government decides to throw its resources at getting someone, there's not a whole lot a little guy can do except go public and scream bloody murder and hope the media covers it enough to shame those involved.

True, and let's hope the innocent can clear their names, but this just came out :

1 hour, 7 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.

Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.

The decision on whether to press criminal charges against four Marines ultimately will be made by the commander of the accused Marines’ parent unit, the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif. That currently is Lt. Gen. John Sattler, but he is scheduled to move to a Pentagon assignment soon; his successor will be Lt. Gen. James Mattis.

The Marines initially reported after the Nov. 19, 2005 killings that 15 Iraqi civilians at Haditha had been killed by a makeshift roadside bomb and in crossfire between Marines and insurgent attackers. Based on accounts from survivors and human rights groups, Time magazine first reported in March that the killings were deliberate acts by the Marines.

A criminal investigation was then ordered by the top Marine commander in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Richard Zilmer.

A parallel investigation is examining whether officers in the Marines’ chain of command tried to cover up the events. The probe, which has not been made public, faults some officers for failing to pursue obvious discrepancies in the initial reports about what happened in Haditha and for not launching an early investigation.

Public attention on the Haditha case grew after Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a former Marine, asserted publicly on May 17 that he had learned from Marine Corps officials that innocent Iraqis had been killed “in cold blood.”

Lawyers for Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, one of the Marines under investigation, argue in a lawsuit to be filed Wednesday in federal court that Murtha falsely accused Wuterich of murder and war crimes. The suit maintains that Pentagon officials “who have briefed or leaked information to Mr. Murtha deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information” and that the congressman subsequently “has made repeated statements .... that are defamatory” to Wuterich and his fellow Marines.

Among the other cases of alleged deliberate killings of Iraqi civilians, eight Marines have been charged with premeditated murder and other criminal acts in connection with the killing of an Iraqi man in Hamdania on April 26. Also, five soldiers and a former soldier have been charged in the March 12 rape-slaying of a young Iraqi woman and the killings of her relatives in Mahmoudiya.

© 2006 The Associated Press.

Of the 24 killed, no one has even looked at the bodies. Note, no one ever says how many women, or children were killed. Sorry, this still doesn't pass the smell test...

Exactly. I don't know if they're innocent, but situations like these are always more complicated than they appear in a news story.

quote:

Originally posted by Bones:
Of the 24 killed, no one has even looked at the bodies. Note, no one ever says how many women, or children were killed. Sorry, this still doesn't pass the smell test...

Well, not quite... Here are excerpts from easy to find stories from different news sources :



"According to eyewitnesses and local officials interviewed over the past 10 weeks, the civilians who died in Haditha on Nov. 19 were killed not by a roadside bomb but by the Marines themselves, who went on a rampage in the village after the attack, killing 15 unarmed Iraqis in their homes, including seven women and three children.

The director of the local hospital in Haditha, Dr Wahid, claimed that the 24 bodies were brought to the hospital around midnight on November 19th. While the marines claim that the victims had been killed by shrapnel from the roadside bomb, Dr Whaid said that there were "no organs slashed by shrapnel in any of the bodies". He further claimed that it appeared that "the victims were shot in the head and chest from close range".

"Soon after the killings, the mayor of Haditha, Emad Jawad Hamza, led an angry delegation of elders up to the Haditha Dam Marine base allegedly complaining to the base captain.[2]

Marines paid a total of $38,000 to families of 15 of the civilians killed."

"According to the Los Angeles Times, military and congressional sources distinguished between two squads: the original Marine squad involved in the explosion and shootings, and a Marine intelligence squad that took photos shortly after the shootings. According to LA Times sources, although the intelligence squad's photos were inconsistent with the Marine squad's report of a firefight, no investigation occurred until after a March 2006 Time Magazine story alleging a massacre."

"Video shot by Iraqi journalist and founder of Hammurabi Human Rights Group[13] Taher Thabet and cellphone photos reportedly taken by one of the Marines[14] the day after the killings have been put forth as evidence that the killings were methodical and without resistance.[2][15] The term "execution-style" has been used by US military officials to describe the killings. [16]In particular, the video shot by Thabeth shows the bodies of the children and women with gunshot wounds, bullet holes in the interior walls of the house, and bloodstains on the floor."

But, in all fairness, I have to add this :

"On June 20, 2006 the BBC ran an article alleging that conditions in the Kilo company headquarters were "feral". The four hundred men were based at a dam three miles from Haditha. The camp was described as a "decaying rabbit-warren". As a result, unofficial shacks had been set up outside the building to house Marines. Oliver Poole, a reporter who visited the camp, called the conditions filthy and disgusting. He said:

"The fact that the officers had let conditions deteriorate to the level in which where people living [sic] in such basic environment, that says something," he said. "Where were the officers keeping the standards that the US military keeps in the field?" [24]
Conditions in Haditha itself were known to have been deteriorating under militant rule, and attacks on U.S. troops as well as executions of suspected informants were common."

And this :

"James Crossen, who was sitting next to Terrazas, was also injured by the roadside bomb. In an interview with King5 television in Seattle, he alleged that children in the area often helped insurgents by counting vehicles in a convoy. Crossen suggests that it is likely women and children had given information about US patrols to insurgents, and that this information led to the roadside bomb attack. When asked whether he had any emotion about the villagers who were killed, Crossen responded "No... Probably half of them were bad guys and you just don't know, so it really doesn't cross my mind. [...] Being so far away and it being so hot... you just lose control sort of and kind of stop caring what happened and I'm pretty sure that's what happened over there."[21]

Martin Terrazas, father of the dead Marine, has been quoted as saying that Marines his son had fought with had told him that, following the bomb explosion, the Company was attacked by insurgents who used civilians as human shields, and that the Marines had done "only what was necessary to survive."[22]

John Bambenek, a political columnist, did not exonerate the Marines for their conduct, but connected the style of warfighting employed by the so-called insurgents to these types incidents by uniformed soldiers."

My son was saying that he and his men have been trained to go thur a door, by 1st kicking it open, throwning a gernade into the room, and then going in fast w/ their weapon on auto.

The people have been warn many times to not run and closed doors whem Marines come into an area.

I can see that all this is pretty murky - more light will surely be shed on this in the next few days - and I can't even begin to phathom the pressure the soldiers are under over there.

Nevertheless, a professional army is binded by certain rules and conventions. The intentional killing of civilians, or indeed of any unarmed people, is prohibited by modern laws of war derived from the UN Charter, the Hague Conventions and the Geneva Conventions, and constitutes a war crime.
The Marines and officers are expected to face courts martial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is U.S. military law. Due to a Status of Forces Agreement with the Government of Iraq, the troops will not be subject to Iraqi law.

I just hope - either way (marines or civilians) - that justice will be made in a place that truly needs it.

This is my only comment on this trash topic.

No comment.

they can kill and pillage as much as they want to,they will all be judged and will pay the price for the atrocities.

Murtha is a typical liberal Democrat Bush Basher who will sink to any level to trash President Bush and promote his party and liberal political agenda. He is a disgrace to our country and to all that serve in our Military.

quote:

Originally posted by flashman:
I can see that all this is pretty murky - more light will surely be shed on this in the next few days - and I can't even begin to phathom the pressure the soldiers are under over there.

Nevertheless, a professional army is binded by certain rules and conventions. The intentional killing of civilians, or indeed of any unarmed people, is prohibited by modern laws of war derived from the UN Charter, the Hague Conventions and the Geneva Conventions, and constitutes a war crime.
The Marines and officers are expected to face courts martial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is U.S. military law. Due to a Status of Forces Agreement with the Government of Iraq, the troops will not be subject to Iraqi law.

I just hope - either way (marines or civilians) - that justice will be made in a place that truly needs it.

Flash,

You may have just explained, whats wrong with, and why wars are started. Its not the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines that start wars. Its the Civilians who do. While the Militaries are beating each other to death, the Dam Civilians cry about rules that protect them, and how they shouldn't be affected by these dirty, little wars, they wanted. I say,take the war, to those who want it, and let them smell death...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bones,

Do you know what they call it, when you kill a pregnant woman in combat?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rick B,

quote:

Originally posted by Rick B:
Do you know what they call it, when you kill a pregnant woman in combat?

LMAO, thats so old.

Do you know what special technique is employed?