About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:
1. Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million;
2. Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000;
3. States won by: Gore: 19 Bush: 29
4. Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2, Bush: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country.
Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements living off government welfare."
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency & apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
*********************** "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Anonymous
Detroit has solved this problem. It has gotten so bad that it is becoming a ghost town and everyone is moving out. Eventually there will be a rebirth to perhaps a greater city without all the corruption. Look for a Detroiter to be moving to a city near you.
Posts: 2395 | Location: 9th Plain of Hell | Registered: March 10, 2003
In answere to Raven's question, not much if we don't make significant changes; and, sooner not later... E.g., securing our borders, denying citizenship to those who are here illegally (including their offspring), reducing the dependency on government by reducing the size of government (down to core basics), replacing the current tax code [Fair Tax proposal would be a good start]...
"Whatsoever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce, 1924
Posts: 908 | Location: Newnan, GA | Registered: June 13, 2005
"A democracy is always temporary in nature...From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship ."
I'm sorry Mr. Lloyd, I obviously didn't say it well enough for you:
If (should)
you (Mr. Lloyd)
study (read about)
them (dictatorships - which includes miltary dictatorships)
you (Mr. Lloyd)
will (shall)
understand (comprehend)
that (we are nowhere near being any kind of dictatorship).
You don't have armed guards on every corner checking your 'papers' authorizing you to move throughout the country, you can still gather peacefully without fear of arrest, you can speak against the government without fear of arrest, etc. etc.
Please, check out SOMETHING which describes dictatorships. Books are available in the library for free.
----------------- Yes. I AM a pig.
Posts: 414 | Location: Spanaway, WA, USA | Registered: June 23, 2002
Yes, it was. This is the first of all of my posts to be this way.
The reason was that you made a statement, I disputed it (politely), then you made an even stronger statement than the first without even attempting to explain yourself.
I could, therefor, only come to the conclusion that you either did not read what I had posted or you didn't understand. I hope it was the former.
As for being naive, I hope not. After travelling the world, both in the military and as a civilian, I would like to think that I've got a pretty good handle on things.
----------------- Yes. I AM a pig.
Posts: 414 | Location: Spanaway, WA, USA | Registered: June 23, 2002
Originally posted by Baboy Ako: Yes, it was. This is the first of all of my posts to be this way.
The reason was that you made a statement, I disputed it (politely), then you made an even stronger statement than the first without even attempting to explain yourself.
I could, therefor, only come to the conclusion that you either did not read what I had posted or you didn't understand. I hope it was the former.
As for being naive, I hope not. After travelling the world, both in the military and as a civilian, I would like to think that I've got a pretty good handle on things.
Fair enough.
I too, have travelled the world, and I understand global politics, democracies and what comprises a military dictatorship. And I believe this country is being ruled through a military dictatorship, a Junta, so to speak.
Originally posted by Greg Lloyd: [QUOTE]I too, have travelled the world, and I understand global politics, democracies and what comprises a military dictatorship. And I believe this country is being ruled through a military dictatorship, a Junta, so to speak.
What? C'mon, bro, gimme a break. I am not a fan of this administration to say the least, and Dubya & co. are no friends of civil liberties, but this is by no stretch of the imagination a military dictatorship. There are no summary executions, there is no significant censorship, there is only the most cursory form of public surveillance, and there is also a free media.
Now, you can argue that we are drifting - slowly and in countless small ways - towards a dictatorship, but we are far away from it at the moment. This is not to say that trends may not be alarming, but we are free to discuss and implement remedies because we are still, after all, a democratic republic, however imperfect.
To say we live under a military junta is an insult to those who really do, friend.
_______________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week."
Posts: 1456 | Location: New York/Denver | Registered: August 05, 2005
Originally posted by Baboy Ako: We are nowhere near a dictatorship, and if you study them, you will understand that.
As to the "life of a democracy", it doesn't apply to the U.S. where we have a representative republic.
Two completely different animals.
Now that we can get back to the topic at hand; can you please explain the differences that at you see between what is said about a democracy and how you see the U.S. as a representative republic? I really would like to hear more.
Posts: 2395 | Location: 9th Plain of Hell | Registered: March 10, 2003
Originally posted by THEMONK: Glid - you took this off track which seems to becoming a pattern for you in your short life here.
Yours would be shorter if it were up to me.
Greg Lloyd, this type of post is not welcome here. (Nor the other dozen or so of yours I've just deleted.) You're no longer welcome on the Cigar Aficionado forums.
Monk, please use the alert feature when you see a problem rather than engaging trolls. Thanks.
Posts: 2170 | Location: New York, NY | Registered: April 23, 2002
