Originally posted by appa69: Why is it automaticly that if someone doesn't agree with you people they "know little"? Congratulations on being a bunch of arrogant pricks. Don't worry you've silenced my point of view. Go claim your victory.
You are the one saying that this administration has had zero accomplishments, you are the one making the argument. When people offer evidence to refute your claim, you take your ball and go home? Are you sure you aren't a liberal?
To call republicans conservative is ludicrous. It took from George Washington to Ronald Reagan for the national debt to hit the $1 trillion mark — a period of more than 190 years. Now, 27 years later, the national debt has risen more than 800 percent under three Republicans and one Democratic president. However, only $1.2 trillion of national debt was accrued during President Bill Clinton’s administration, meaning the bulk of national debt comes from Republican administrations.
Do you have any data to back up your claim that republican administrations have racked up more debt? Secondly, you have to account for inflation and a lot of other factors. If you are unhappy, then go vote for Clinton/Obama. They will make all your wildest dreams come true.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
OK, so the better alternative is Democrats that are promising higher taxes and bigger Government?
SubChop, I'd like to offer the opinion that "tax and spend" isn't a policy that flies in either party any more, but is a bumper sticker aphorism that's out of date. But certainly, hard fiscal choices have to be made in government and, in my view, President Bush hasn't made them.
Even without factoring in the wars, increases in federal spending have been at record levels, far exceeeding economic growth, and been made without regard to offsetting them with accompanying revenue streams. Understand I'm not arguing whether the programs responsible for the increases have merit or not -- I'm certainly not against expanding medicare prescription drug benefits or leasing new refueling tankers for the Air Force, to use a couple of big-ticket examples. It's just that this administration is spending a lot more money without coming up with the means by which to afford it. So the deficit grows and grows and grows, as does our debt to our lenders, notably China.
I'm not a conservative, but unless I misunderstand what fiscal conservatism means, I'd think that lack of economic responsibility would be evoking a bit more criticism of this President from conservatives.
'Question authority. Think for yourself. Filter out the spin. Engage elected officials critically. Make them defend what they're doing in your name. Derive the truth. Speak truth to power.'
Posts: 2605 | Location: Boston | Registered: April 16, 2005
Originally posted by Presley: Do you have any data to back up your claim that republican administrations have racked up more debt? Secondly, you have to account for inflation and a lot of other factors. If you are unhappy, then go vote for Clinton/Obama. They will make all your wildest dreams come true.
These are matters of public record available to anyone willing to take the time. Maybe YOU should do some research.
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Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
Just because someone's opinion is different than yours, doesn't make them wrong.
A man who WILL NOT to reason is a bigot, A man who CANNOT reason is a fool, A man who DARES NOT reason is a slave
OK, so the better alternative is Democrats that are promising higher taxes and bigger Government?
SubChop, I'd like to offer the opinion that "tax and spend" isn't a policy that flies in either party any more, but is a bumper sticker aphorism that's out of date. But certainly, hard fiscal choices have to be made in government and, in my view, President Bush hasn't made them.
Even without factoring in the wars, increases in federal spending have been at record levels, far exceeeding economic growth, and been made without regard to offsetting them with accompanying revenue streams. Understand I'm not arguing whether the programs responsible for the increases have merit or not -- I'm certainly not against expanding medicare prescription drug benefits or leasing new refueling tankers for the Air Force, to use a couple of big-ticket examples. It's just that this administration is spending a lot more money without coming up with the means by which to afford it. So the deficit grows and grows and grows, as does our debt to our lenders, notably China.
I'm not a conservative, but unless I misunderstand what fiscal conservatism means, I'd think that lack of economic responsibility would be evoking a bit more criticism of this President from conservatives.
I don't disagree with you Jack. Bush has been a huge disappointment to fiscal conservatives. I fear McCain may not be as fiscally conservative as I would like either. However, there is not question that Obama and Clinton are NOT fiscal conservatives.
On a personal level, I'll take the lower taxes and increased national debt rather than higher taxes and a slightly smaller national debt.
Posts: 1252 | Location: WI | Registered: November 16, 2007
Originally posted by KKL: I don't disagree with you Jack. Bush has been a huge disappointment to fiscal conservatives. I fear McCain may not be as fiscally conservative as I would like either. However, there is not question that Obama and Clinton are NOT fiscal conservatives.
Find me a fiscal conservative who is "electable" in our 2 party system. I don't think such a thing exists. Maybe it's time to take a broader look at politics.
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Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
Just because someone's opinion is different than yours, doesn't make them wrong.
A man who WILL NOT to reason is a bigot, A man who CANNOT reason is a fool, A man who DARES NOT reason is a slave
Originally posted by Presley: Do you have any data to back up your claim that republican administrations have racked up more debt? Secondly, you have to account for inflation and a lot of other factors. If you are unhappy, then go vote for Clinton/Obama. They will make all your wildest dreams come true.
These are matters of public record available to anyone willing to take the time. Maybe YOU should do some research.
Man, you're really off the chain. First you cry that we hurt your feelings and "belittle" you, then you post without adding anything to prove your data. Have you looked into earmarks at all? Have you seen who the biggest spenders are in your government? You are correct, President Bush has not been a fiscal conservative, so maybe you should vote for Clinton/Obama? Really, you seem about as mature as your avatar indicates. You've got to grow thick skin around here. We all take hits around here and get flamed. No one is going to agree with everything you say so be prepared to support your posts.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Originally posted by Presley: Man, you're really off the chain. First you cry that we hurt your feelings and "belittle" you, then you post without adding anything to prove your data. Have you looked into earmarks at all? Have you seen who the biggest spenders are in your government?
They're not the ones crying fiscal conservativism. The free-spending republicans are. What part of LYING isn't sinking in?
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Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
Just because someone's opinion is different than yours, doesn't make them wrong.
A man who WILL NOT to reason is a bigot, A man who CANNOT reason is a fool, A man who DARES NOT reason is a slave
However, there is not question that Obama and Clinton are NOT fiscal conservatives.
Nope, they're not. But conservative or liberal, my preference would be for fiscal responsibility -- expanding programs and increasing spending in essential areas when -- and only when -- the means to pay for them can be found. Maybe that means making money available by cutting other programs, and yes, maybe that means new taxes. Choices, choices, choices. But I don't want it to mean higher and higher deficit levels.
'Question authority. Think for yourself. Filter out the spin. Engage elected officials critically. Make them defend what they're doing in your name. Derive the truth. Speak truth to power.'
Posts: 2605 | Location: Boston | Registered: April 16, 2005
Originally posted by Presley: Man, you're really off the chain. First you cry that we hurt your feelings and "belittle" you, then you post without adding anything to prove your data. Have you looked into earmarks at all? Have you seen who the biggest spenders are in your government?
They're not the ones crying fiscal conservativism. The free-spending republicans are. What part of LYING isn't sinking in?
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
If I KNOW I'm NOT getting smaller government or less spending(which makes lower taxation irresponsible), then what reason do I still have to vote for a "conservative" republican? Without their blanket "conservative" policies(which they have proven they don't enact) what do they have left?
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Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
Just because someone's opinion is different than yours, doesn't make them wrong.
A man who WILL NOT to reason is a bigot, A man who CANNOT reason is a fool, A man who DARES NOT reason is a slave
Originally posted by Jack White: But conservative or liberal, my preference would be for fiscal responsibility -- expanding programs and increasing spending in essential areas when -- and only when -- the means to pay for them can be found. Maybe that means making money available by cutting other programs, and yes, maybe that means new taxes. But I don't want it to mean higher and higher deficit levels.
I'm with Jack on this - no government can sustain itself over the long term without balanced spending.
The Bush administration has increased spending and lowered taxes at the same time. It's simply not sustainable, and it leaves the next administration - regardless of who is in the Whitehouse - with some very difficult decisons to make right off the bat.
Somthing needs to give - we either have to cut some very popular programs, or increase taxes. Neither option is going to make people happy.
I really don't understand why fiscal conservatives (the original core of the Republican Party) haven't been calling for Bush's head over this.
So many cigars, so little time...
Posts: 1986 | Location: South of the Mason/Dixon Line | Registered: September 24, 2007
Originally posted by appa69: If I KNOW I'm NOT getting smaller government or less spending(which makes lower taxation irresponsible), then what reason do I still have to vote for a "conservative" republican? Without their blanket "conservative" policies(which they have proven they don't enact) what do they have left?
I take it that you concede the point. Really, I doubt anyone here cares who you support.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
If you believe anything you read in Free republic you need psychiatric help. Election rhetoric aside, however, dems are not claiming to be fiscally "conservative" but republicans are, even though they are not practicing what they preach.
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Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty. I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
Just because someone's opinion is different than yours, doesn't make them wrong.
A man who WILL NOT to reason is a bigot, A man who CANNOT reason is a fool, A man who DARES NOT reason is a slave
Originally posted by appa69: If you believe anything you read in Free republic you need psychiatric help. Election rhetoric aside, however, dems are not claiming to be fiscally "conservative" but republicans are, even though they are not practicing what they preach.
Alright, i'm bored with this conversation. Can we get back to the original topic.
"America's chickens are coming home to roost"-Jeremiah Wright
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." Ronald Reagan
Originally posted by appa69: Election rhetoric aside, however, dems are not claiming to be fiscally "conservative" but republicans are, even though they are not practicing what they preach.
Don't you like lower taxes?
Posts: 1252 | Location: WI | Registered: November 16, 2007
