One must never underestimate the amount of resentment in the world.

90% of the population of the third world despises the west.
To think the contrary is completely naive.

10-4 FirstRecon. We agree to disagree. And, as always, I appreciate your impressive and informed input. Again, it is food for thought, hard to digest, but food no less.

As for countries I have visited : most European countries, including some Eastern-European countries before the fall of the USSR. USA, Mexico, Cuba, French and british antilles. Brazil, Argentina, Costa Rica, Panama. Should be leaving for Kenya and Tanzania mid-september.

Obviously, relatively safe "bourgeois" tourist destinations. I must say I am completely outdone and outgunned by you in that area - especially considering your experiences.

Ah well ! Back to the ol' drawing board...

In the meantime, have fun and rest well !

Flashman

Get a copy of Dark Star Safari by Paul Theroux

Its about thravelling by land from Cairo to Johannesburg.
He states that "Africa's land borders are a microcosm of Africa's total reality"

I've read it and the other books of his travels including The Great Railway Bazaar, Riding the Iron Rooster and The Pillars of Hercules

Flashman, you do raise a good point about Islamism vs. Islam, per se. However, you miss an important point which is that Islamism is a political movement that seeks to radicalize all Muslims. In short, Islamism seeks to turn what, at its most benign, was a set of personal beliefs and force them on the larger world.

This movement has found fertile soil in the Muslim world among those who aren't political but nonetheless sympathize with the Islamists' cause. In short, it is the difference between those like Zarqawi who behead a hapless American contractor and those who watch the videos with bloodlust and moral approval. Such people may not take up arms themselves, but have no problem with those who do and may, when pressed, contribute money or succor to the Islamists.

Now, as to Blackie's point about deploring terrorism from all sides, whether Jewish or Palestinian, let me remind you that Zionist terrorism is rare and largely a thing of the past. This is not the case with Palestinian or even Muslim terrorism which is widespread and oh so current.

quote:

Originally posted by flashman:
10-4 FirstRecon. We agree to disagree. And, as always, I appreciate your impressive and informed input. Again, it is food for thought, hard to digest, but food no less.

As for countries I have visited : most European countries, including some Eastern-European countries before the fall of the USSR. USA, Mexico, Cuba, French and british antilles. Brazil, Argentina, Costa Rica, Panama. Should be leaving for Kenya and Tanzania mid-september.

Obviously, relatively safe "bourgeois" tourist destinations. I must say I am completely outdone and outgunned by you in that area - especially considering your experiences.

Ah well ! Back to the ol' drawing board...

In the meantime, have fun and rest well !

Flashman, my man,

I'm happy to see that you have done some traveling. And, some of the countries you visited are not all that safe. Also, I"m pleased, once again, that we can agree to disagree. Many people could not carry on peaceful discussion on a heated topic such as this one.

Still, you have not answered a question I posed to you in and earlier post.

What would you do, REALLY do, and what would Canada do, if, in fact, a missle was fired into Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec? I really would like to hear your answer. Sincerely, I would like to know.

"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail"
Guess who?

quote:

Originally posted by Raven35031:
What I dont understand is why the same folks that are condeming Israel are not condeming the terrorist.

Raven,
Well said and kudos for having the balls to say a politically INCORRECT thought. Hmmmmm. In this day and time doesn't being politically CORRECT affect our right to free speech? I'm thinking, thinking, thinking. I think it does infringe on our right to free speech.

Although I was in the Marine Corps, your avitar reminds me of an Army patch I remember seeing in Nam. Is it my imagination?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: David Savona,

quote:

Originally posted by FirstReconUSMC:
I'm happy to see that you have done some traveling. And, some of the countries you visited are not all that safe. Also, I"m pleased, once again, that we can agree to disagree. Many people could not carry on peaceful discussion on a heated topic such as this one.

Still, you have not answered a question I posed to you in and earlier post.

What would you do, REALLY do, and what would Canada do, if, in fact, a missle was fired into Mt-St-Hilaire, Quebec? I really would like to hear your answer. Sincerely, I would like to know.

My fingers do not want to type these words, but I would indeed fight back in any way possible and would seek justice with everything I have got. I see where you are getting at...

But, to fight back effectively, I would first and foremost seek out the good "bad guy" (so to speak), the one who actually fired the missile, not everybody that could have fired the missile. Or everybody that could maybe eventually fire one.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottological:
Flashman, you do raise a good point about Islamism vs. Islam, per se. However, you miss an important point which is that Islamism is a political movement that seeks to radicalize all Muslims. In short, Islamism seeks to turn what, at its most benign, was a set of personal beliefs and force them on the larger world.

This movement has found fertile soil in the Muslim world among those who aren't political but nonetheless sympathize with the Islamists' cause. In short, it is the difference between those like Zarqawi who behead a hapless American contractor and those who watch the videos with bloodlust and moral approval. Such people may not take up arms themselves, but have no problem with those who do and may, when pressed, contribute money or succor to the Islamists.

Yes, that is, to some extent, implicit in the content of the WSJ article and the CSIS study.

quote:

Originally posted by blackie1:
also, the Palestinians just want to form their own state as well............ so where exatcly is the difference between the terrorisme by jews against the british and the current set of terrorisme by Palestinians ?

and dont get me wrong, I do not support terrorisme ever, in any case it is completely unacceptabel to kill innocent civilians,but where do we draw the line ?

blackie,

The Jews only this year gave land to the Palestinians in order for them to have their own state. Land that Palestine has claimed for centuries. The world has recognized them as a state. Except the US will not deal with Hamas as a government for reasons I do not need to explain.

And what did the Palestinians do? They elected Hamas as the leading party of Palestine, continued to effect homicide bombers into Israel, and, are as we type, firing rockets into southern Israel. Where in the hell is the logic in that? It's called hate
"hate
v. hat·ed, hat·ing, hates
To feel hostility or animosity toward.
To detest.
To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes.
To feel hatred.

n.
Intense animosity or dislike; hatred.
An object of detestation or hatred: My pet hate is tardiness".

Call it Wahabi-ism, Islamistism, Palestinian-ism, Iranian-ism, Syria-ism, and all the isms you can muster up. Muslims hate Jews!

Hell, we American's (Colonist rebels) fought the British to gain control in the NE corner of the US and the Brits are our best allies in the world, along with Israel - The Brits got over it, our way of life is logical and we have the freedom to think logically; So, if the Brits can get over it, why can't the Palestinians? Because Islam will not allow them to get over it. Forget the past. Nothing endures but change. Think of the world's problems in the present tense. A suggestion only. Re-read scotlogical's post just above your post. It make a lot of LOGICAL sense.

There already is a Palestinian state. It's called Jordan. This used to be Trans-Jordan, which included modern day Israel until it was split up to make room for Muslims and Jews both.

Before that, however, it was called Greater Syria, and before that, the Ottoman Empire. The point is, the Palestinians were never a "people" distinct from their Arab-Muslim brethren in the region. Not that it would matter if they were, of course, since common ethnicity does not entitle you to a state of your own.

No, the terrorists that make up the Palestinian Authority do not so much want a land of their own as much as they want the Jews to be pushed back into the sea. They're quite explicit on this point both in word and in deed. They were offered a state, after all, and refused it. Rather than invest in schools, hospitals, and roads, the current Hamas government has chosen to invest in weapons to fight Israel.

Golda Meir said that there would be peace in the region if the Palestinians loved their children as much as they hated the Jews. I'm inclined to believe her.

quote:

But, to fight back effectively, I would first and foremost seek out the good "bad guy" (so to speak), the one who actually fired the missile, not everybody that could have fired the missile. Or everybody that could maybe eventually fire one.

If you try to find the good/bad guy then he will kill you while you are looking for him/her. Don't ever believe a thing such as our World Trade Tower incident can't happen in Canada. That is exactly why the conflict in Lebanon is happening; the Israeli's believe in pre-emptive warfare. It keeps you and yours alive longer. The UN has been in Lebanon since, I think 1978, don't hold me to that date though. The UN still is in Lebanon. ?????

Love ya Flashman. Good wordsmithing by you today. I'm packed and tomorrow off to the beach. You will be pleased that I do not travel with any electronic device that connects to the Internet.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottological:
There already is a Palestinian state. It's called Jordan. This used to be Trans-Jordan, which included modern day Israel until it was split up to make room for Muslims and Jews both.

Before that, however, it was called Greater Syria, and before that, the Ottoman Empire. The point is, the Palestinians were never a "people" distinct from their Arab-Muslim brethren in the region. Not that it would matter if they were, of course, since common ethnicity does not entitle you to a state of your own.

No, the terrorists that make up the Palestinian Authority do not so much want a land of their own as much as they want the Jews to be pushed back into the sea. They're quite explicit on this point both in word and in deed. They were offered a state, after all, and refused it. Rather than invest in schools, hospitals, and roads, the current Hamas government has chosen to invest in weapons to fight Israel.

Golda Meir said that there would be peace in the region if the Palestinians loved their children as much as they hated the Jews. I'm inclined to believe her.

Scottlogical,

Ditto, and kudos for the history lesson that needed to be given

quote:

Originally posted by Bones:
I've seen pleeeeeeenty of Muslim outrage, and dozens of major Muslim leaders and scholars openly and clearly denounce terrorist actions, and exhort their followers to condemn such actions. You won't find these statements in most media outlets (funny, I thought the media was liberal), but they're out there. People just don't seem to care about hearing it.

? Where,when, I'm sorry but I've not seen any on the six o'clock or eleven o'clock news. Nothing in the Paper, or on the radio. Only thing on TV is a call,to "Kill the Jews",[/QUOTE]

I found ONE:

Saudi Slams Hezbollah

A leading Wahhabi cleric in Saudi Arabia has issued a scathing fatwa against Hezbollah — the latest in a series of condemnations from the usually supportive Arab world. Sheik Abdullah bin Jabreen declares it against Muslim Sharia law to support, join, or even pray for the terror group, writing, "Our advice to the Sunnis is to denounce them and shun those who join them to show their hostility to Islam and to the Muslims."

The New York Sun reports that the fatwa also condemns Iran for funding and supporting Hezbollah to further what Jabreen called its imperial ambitions.

Heavens Mike ! You're probably the last person on Earth I would have expected to bring this to our attention.
You're sometimes full of pleasant surprises...

Acceptable casualties, I guess.

Nice find mikey. Statements like that have been issued out by major muslim scholars since the 9/11 attacks. They've been majorly ignored by the mainstream media.

When will the left media learn?

Eat your words Pat

quote:

Originally posted by El Mamerro:
Acceptable casualties, I guess.

Nice find mikey. Statements like that have been issued out by major muslim scholars since the 9/11 attacks. They've been majorly ignored by the mainstream media.

Sorry El Mammy, I was not being serious. I like the news clip from CNN. Back story on that poor family. Her husband was a terrorist and was using their own home to store and launch rockets in Israeil. Of course his rockets would only kill military target and spare innocent Israelis.

I'd like to know more about that back story. Link?

Also...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm

They were contacted 10 times!!! Sorry, but I'm simply not seeing this supposed concerned effort on the part of Israel to minimize errors.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: El Mamerro,