So here we are in our CC forums, playing the game of hush-hush vis-a-vis discussing how we procure our stogies, while the cigar cognoscenti gather in NY for the annual Night To Remember. A gathering including Rudy Guiliani and Rush Limbaugh (who doesn't smoke CCs, so he says) - both of whom I admire - and I read the following account of the evening:

As the plates were cleared and Port glasses filled, Shanken took to the podium again, this time with a large cigar in his mouth. The waiters brought out Humidipak bags filled with Bolivar Royal Coronas, Coronado by La Flor Double Coronas and Padrón 1964 Anniversary Series Imperials, the Nos. 1, 2 and 3 cigars of the year as ranked by Cigar Aficionado. He lit, and he puffed. "Gentlemen, start your engines," he said. "This is a cigar dinner."

Now we are not talking about a William F. Buckley moment here (he says he smoked marijuna in international waters). These guys did not travel to Bermuda for this evening (although it would still be illegal for a U.S. citizen to light one up anywhere). No, this took place in NY City. I guess the laws which have us regular folk going backchannel to discuss our choice of cigars just don't apply to the elite. Or am I wrong and am I going to be seeing Rudy's mug on CNN linked to a cigar scandal?

No you are not wrong, they don't apply to them. They never have.

But seriously how strict is the US government when it comes to CCs. Have they ever arrested someone for smoking one while walking down the street?

No, because local LE has no interest. Hell, they don't even involve themselves with determining the legality of aliens. But the Treasury Dept. apparently is now monitoring financial transactions. If they are going to be looking at my credit card bills, maybe they should be monitoring these CC speakeasies like the CA annual dinner.

Be vewey,vewey, careful the editors might fight back on that one remember they are with the elite TOO. always someone looking over the shoulder of us. The government or the elite.

In a sense, smoking the cigars at the dinner was an act of civil disobedience, which I support. But let's do it right, - 100,000 of us CC smokers take to the streets of Washington to protest.

If Rudy does become President, he damn well better call off the OFAC dogs or he will reveal himself to be a big-time scumbag. In fact, he really needs to make repeal of the embargo his first act in office.

well if you were a politician or a big shot, then certain laws don't necessarly apply to you...

it is exactly like income tax returns.. the big boys never pay much taxes, no matter what they make... they know the loopholes, and know how to take advantage of them.. the government knows that, but let them slip, because 99% of the joe bloes out there don't know what they're doing, and always pay way more than they need...

it's the same thing with CC's.. it's beacuse most people cannot smoke them, that the elite can....

this is life when you're sitting at the bottom of the pyramid..

If the pyramid is an Upmann #2, I can live with that

quote:

Originally posted by Party Gus:
If the pyramid is an Upmann #2, I can live with that

how about a cohiba piramides ??? can you live with that as well ?? i sure can, and DO

I'm sure I'd smoke one under extreme social pressure.

I still can't believe I was left off the guest list. LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by salibas007:
well if you were a politician or a big shot, then certain laws don't necessarly apply to you...

it is exactly like income tax returns.. the big boys never pay much taxes, no matter what they make... they know the loopholes, and know how to take advantage of them.. the government knows that, but let them slip, because 99% of the joe bloes out there don't know what they're doing, and always pay way more than they need...

it's the same thing with CC's.. it's beacuse most people cannot smoke them, that the elite can....

this is life when you're sitting at the bottom of the pyramid..

WRONG! Read below. The information is presented on Rush Limbaugh's website, which is the source of the article.



The Top 50% pay 96.54% of All Income Taxes
(The top 1% pay more than a third: 34.27%)

October 4, 2005

This is the data for calendar year 2003 just released in October 2005 by the Internal Revenue Service. The share of total income taxes paid by the top 1% of wage earners rose to 34.27% from 33.71% in 2002. Their income share (not just wages) rose from 16.12% to 16.77%. However, their average tax rate actually dropped from 27.25% down to 24.31%


*Data covers calendar year 2003, not fiscal year 2003
- and includes all income, not just wages, excluding Social Security
Think of it this way: less than 3-1/2 dollars out of every $100 paid in income taxes in the United States is paid by someone in the bottom 50% of wage earners. Are the top half millionaires? Noooo, more like "thousandaires." The top 50% were those individuals or couples filing jointly who earned $29,019 and up in 2003. (The top 1% earned $295,495-plus.) Americans who want to are continuing to improve their lives, and those who don't want to, aren't. Here are the wage earners in each category and the percentages they pay:
The top 1% pay over a third, 34.27% of all income taxes. (Up from 2003: 33.71%) The top 5% pay 54.36% of all income taxes (Up from 2002: 53.80%). The top 10% pay 65.84% (Up from 2002: 65.73%). The top 25% pay 83.88% (Down from 2002: 83.90%). The top 50% pay 96.54% (Up from 2002: 96.50%). The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.46% of all income taxes (Down from 2002: 3.50%). The top 1% is paying nearly ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%! And who earns what? The top 1% earns 16.77% of all income (2002: 16.12%). The top 5% earns 31.18% of all the income (2002: 30.55%). The top 10% earns 42.36% of all the income (2002: 41.77%); the top 25% earns 64.86% of all the income (2002: 64.37%) , and the top 50% earns 86.01% (2002: 85.77%) of all the income.

I have made an executive decision as the owner and ultimate editor of this website that this table and these numbers stay on this website forever - updated when each year's numbers come out, of course. In order to get these facts, you have to see them each and every day. This story, along with a link to the IRS chart, will stay somewhere on the RushLimbaugh.com homepage so everyone can see and find these numbers at any time. It's crucial that people get this, so please, share it with a friend now!
The Rich Earned Their Dough, They Didn't Inherit It (Except Ted Kennedy)
October 10, 2003

The bottom 50% is paying a tiny bit of the taxes, so you can't give them much of a tax cut by definition. Yet these are the people to whom the Democrats claim to want to give tax cuts. Remember this the next time you hear the "tax cuts for the rich" business. Understand that the so-called rich are about the only ones paying taxes anymore.

I had a conversation with a woman who identified herself as Misty on Wednesday. She claimed to be an accountant, yet she seemed unaware of the Alternative Minimum Tax, which now ensures that everyone pays some taxes. AP reports that the AMT, "designed in 1969 to ensure 155 wealthy people paid some tax," will hit "about 2.6 million of us this year and 36 million by 2010." That's because the tax isn't indexed for inflation! If your salary today would've made you mega-rich in '69, that's how you're taxed.

Misty tried the old line that all wealth is inherited. Not true. John Weicher, as a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a visiting scholar at the Federal Reserve Bank, wrote in his February 13, 1997 Washington Post Op-Ed, "Most of the rich have earned their wealth... Looking at the Fortune 400, quite a few even of the very richest people came from a standing start, while others inherited a small business and turned it into a giant corporation." What's happening here is not that "the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer." The numbers prove it.

quote:

Originally posted by Party Gus:
So here we are in our CC forums, playing the game of hush-hush vis-a-vis discussing how we procure our stogies

Just want to recognize you for using "vis-a-vis" in your post. Well done. Being a college student and seeing that my generation is not as inclined toward pursuits of knowledge or professionalism as those of the past (ie many try to just get through with good grades and land a job), one of the things I do to improve my vocabulary is latch onto a some word that is not typically used in daily conversation among my peers and use it fairly regularly for a short period of time. Doing this makes me comfortable with their use and commits the words to long term memory. My last word was vis-a-vis although I do not know how to type the accent over the "a" without MS Word which does it automatically. We (today's students) really are a spoiled bunch. Now if only there was something I could do about these run-on sentences.

quote:

Originally posted by bamawrx:
[QUOTE]QUOTE]


WRONG! Read below. The information is presented on Rush Limbaugh's website, which is the source of the article.



The Top 50% pay 96.54% of All Income Taxes
(The top 1% pay more than a third: 34.27%).........
.

Great post!

You pay even more depending in which state you live. In my state, RENTERS get property tax rebate checks even though they dont pay any property taxes. Yet, if you make over $250,000/year, you get NADA. These are the people paying 30-40 thousand in property taxes, yet our socialist governor would rather give their rebates to people who dont even pay taxes. Redistribution of wealth at it's finest.

quote:

Originally posted by gasdoc:
In my state, RENTERS get property tax rebate checks even though they dont pay any property taxes. Yet, if you make over $250,000/year, you get NADA. These are the people paying 30-40 thousand in property taxes, yet our socialist governor would rather give their rebates to people who dont even pay taxes. Redistribution of wealth at it's finest.

Go to www.fairtax.org for a commonsense alternative that makes too much sense to ever be adopted.

Good to call it wealth redistribution, too. I love the Orwellian language-twisting that goes on at all points on the political spectrum--it reveals a basic dishonesty that people have about their position on hot-button issues. Wealth resdistribution is a "progressive income tax,"earned income credits," and "tax rebates" (for some people who haven't paid the tax in the first place). Anti-abortion becomes "pro-life" even though the person holding that position has no problem with the death penalty. (I, for one, am anti-abortion; I won't call it anything else). Pro-abortion becomes "pro-choice" although the proponent is anything but for choice in things like school vouchers.

Thanks Freink, in my current job of seven years I mostly crunch numbers, so don't get much of an opportunity to write, as I did in the past. What I'd really like to do for a living is relocate to NY and write novels that will shock people out of their senses.

I agree with all of the above about taxes, class envy, etc. But back to the main point. Why are we supposed to live in fear of OFAC montitoring our activities while a presidential candidate, et. al. feel free to do up a forbidden Bolivar? Am I the only one outraged by this? And I say this as a card-carrying member of the vast right-wing conspiracy.

If we dime them out to the news organizations, might this aid the cause in demonstrating how ridiculous this embargo is and the degree to which those who purport to uphold the law are flouting it? For crying out loud, Guiliani is where he is because he was a hall-of-fame prosecutor.

The "elite" face the same risks as everyone else, if not more so. They're bigger targets.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottological:
The "elite" face the same risks as everyone else, if not more so. They're bigger targets.

Right on the money; we live in the age of "Gotcha!" journalism.

Interestingly, in a survey of journalism students a few years back (can't remember the source, sorry) I remember seeing that the majority of respondents said that the main reason why they wanted to become journalists was to effect "positive change" in the world. Think about that. And think about whether or not such an attitude is conducive to objective reporting.

quote:

Originally posted by minalpharetta:

quote:

Originally posted by gasdoc:
In my state, RENTERS get property tax rebate checks even though they dont pay any property taxes. Yet, if you make over $250,000/year, you get NADA. These are the people paying 30-40 thousand in property taxes, yet our socialist governor would rather give their rebates to people who dont even pay taxes. Redistribution of wealth at it's finest.

Go to www.fairtax.org for a commonsense alternative that makes too much sense to ever be adopted.

Good to call it wealth redistribution, too. I love the Orwellian language-twisting that goes on at all points on the political spectrum--it reveals a basic dishonesty that people have about their position on hot-button issues. Wealth resdistribution is a "progressive income tax,"earned income credits," and "tax rebates" (for some people who haven't paid the tax in the first place). Anti-abortion becomes "pro-life" even though the person holding that position has no problem with the death penalty. (I, for one, am anti-abortion; I won't call it anything else). Pro-abortion becomes "pro-choice" although the proponent is anything but for choice in things like school vouchers.

True.

Fairtax makes too much sense. There has to be something wrong with it.

Those aren't my thoughts, just what people with no knowledge tell me.

At least us Georgians know what we want. Referring to me and min, not the whole state.

Sometimes the elite face the same or bigger risks, sometimes they don't. It is true that Rush Limbaugh was hounded by an agenda-driven prosecutor for a drug addiction that generates sympathy in the media when it afflicts someone of their ilk. On the other hand, 270k people in NJ last year received a ticket for not wearing a seat belt. Will Gov. Corzine? Doubt it.

My point is, would a Pres. Guiliani continue in the footsteps of Pres. Bush and continue to use his executive branch to send out intimidating notices to us CC user criminals, while he himself continues to enjoy his private stash?

BTW, I am enjoying my first Punch-Punch right now on my first day of a 10-day vacation. Very nice earthy & nutty flavors. Only the 6th CC type I have had since I began going down the road to perdition with my initial purchases in Feb.