First off, hello to everyone in this section of the forum. I mostly post on the other parts of the board but decided to post this here since Cubans are more likely to be aged than NCs.

Anyhow, I've come across what seems to be contradicting info. I've been under the impression that after a certain period (a few years?) it becomes counterproductive to age since all you'll gain is for the cigar to continue to loose its flavor and further mellow. Yet, I constantly see cigars in CA over 10 even recently a bolivar around 70 years of age graded highly. So, what gives?

"There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar."
-- Prince Sined Yar Maharg

I have got quiet a few aged well cigars that are by far more pwerfull than young ones.

its all relative, yes some loose strenght but gain complexety some get boldly stronger.Its all in the blend and in how you store cigars.

But I agree with the general rule that aging smokes will make them milder in a way, I preferably age stronger blends like Partagas Lusitanias for example or Punch DC's.

alot of the conflicting reports could be attributed to major changes in the way NC manufacturer's blend cigars today. With the advent of Opus X and VSG and all of these "ligero" cigars, there are finally NC cigars that feature real power, and can improve with aging. IME with cuban cigars, aging is the key to unlock the chest of wonder and flavor. But you can age the personality out of a mild/med blend non cuban cigar in less than a year depending on the cigar. IMO, 80 percent of NC smokes should be smoked within a year or two of purchase, whereas my collection of Cuban cigars is aging for as long as I can stand to keep my hands off of them. And they get better and better, with new flavors and complexities developing every 6 months as they mellow. But mellowing of strong tobacco only removes the bite most of the time, the body remains to a great degree I couldn't tell you with authority why this is, but it is a trade-off in that these cigars are not fantastic out of the box, where many of your NC's are released ready to smoke. After what I have tasted in the past three years, I am sticking with Cubans.

KinnickKinnick

When you get a new or recent box...try a cigar...if it seems like it needs some time, finish the cigar anyway, and in 6 months, check and see by smoking another...and so on.

Cigars are a natural product and since they are plucked from their plant and dried, are and will be in a continual state of deterioration...rotting. It is this state that is called 'fermentation'. It's SOMEWHAT like wine, where a wine will reach its peak and then fall off in terms of flavor and such, but not necessarily. If you maintain humidity and temperature, cigars will age beautifully, and will be in a continual state of change in terms of flavors and such. There are some who subscribe to the theory that a cigar is no good unless it's at least 5 - 7 years old...and of those who have the privilege of smoking older vintages, they say that an old cigar is a whole different ballgame from what we are used to (i.e., cigars that are 2, 3 or 5 years old). The key is being able to keep your hands off of them for that long.

Unlike with wine, where experts can tell you how a wine is progressing, how long it will last, and what the characteristics are at any point in time, and/or when it will be ready to drink, or when it had passed its prime, cigars are more dynamic and are or, better yet, are often, different between cigar to cigar within the same box, regardless of factory, roller or box date. So, you don't have that kind of benchmark against which to evaluate your cigars.

Say you had a 1974 Mondavi Reserve Cabernet...it's made with grapes from the same vineyard, harvested at the same time, made at the same location, aged in the same barrels, so there is consistency, and one bottle will be PRETTY MUCH like the next. Say you had a box of Romeo y Julieta Churchill from 1995, with a box code JM OESL (Jose Marti, aka Upmann, factory, May, 1995). Of the 25 cigars within, 9 could be from one roller, 7 from another roller, 3 from yet another, and 6 from still another. And they could have been made at different times of the week with tobacco from a similar but not identical lot. There's no way to tell how one cigar would be in relation to one from another box with the same code, or even within the same box.

So, ageing, unlike with wine, is a matter of PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Some people get cigars and don't touch them for 5 years. Then they're either good or not good. There's no way to tell.

Remember that cigars are in a constant state of evolution...the key is picking the right day, month, or year, in which to smoke them.

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Santa Cabilla...patron saint of Quericæstan. VIVE COULTER! VIVE CPD!

As I understand it. . . cigars improve with age up to around 10 years, from there its is a very very slow decline if not a leveling off. The allure of Cuban cigars that are 30+ years old is really the quality of tobacco that was produced around the time, no really the aging, although it helps. For instance someone would want a particular Cuban cigar from the 50s, not because of the 50 years of aging, but because of the 1950s tobacco.

Nola, you said that 80% of non cubans aren't age worthy. why? although I keep several cubans, the majority of my stock is nc's.top shelf stuff mostly. most are full flavor. I've been steady collecting for a while now, and have a little over two thousand nc's. are you telling me i can't age them? and should smoke them soon? my god, if thats the case, I've waisted a lot of money. I value your opinion, so please tell me that 80% thing is a little off.

I don`t think your NC`s will go down hill for a long time. I wouldn`t worry about it. I have smoked plenty of 5 year old NC smokes and they tasted fine. They may not improve like a Cuban but i`m not buying they will drop off after a few years. It`s still tobacco.

Luckily, I included "IMO" on that one or I would be a little red-faced right now. I should have said IMO and IME, since what I stated really only applies to my own history with NC's, and that only a small percentage of the cigars I have ever aged were worth aging. But as RyJ says, when you wait a long time and THEN try them, you get what you get. Better to sample at least every 6 months. You have to understand that when the industry focused on the American market began to blend alot more robust cigars, I was already out of that market headed for Cuba. I had seen a phenomenon wherein my "prized high dollar" smokes that I would pull out for a special occasion after holding for about 5 years were not as good as when I smoked one right out of the store. The reason I wanted to hold onto them was that thay were so good. But when the special day finally came, they had lost the spark that made me want to save them forever. Just try to get a steady sampling rotation as your stash is so large. You need to monitor it well since I can be sure of one thing. Not all of the cigars you have collected will be as good in 3-5 years. When you pay cash for them, you should be enjoying them at their peak. You have to taste regularly to keep from missing it. So Let me be clear, most of the cigars that I had EXPERIENCE with were better smoked young than old. I smoked only about 20 percent of all the brands on my store's shelf. I liked Fuente's and Padrons and Hoyos. After that, it was just dabbling. Hope that clears up my blanket statement. Smoother is a given. But gaining smoothness and losing subtle nuances is not a good trade for me.

[This message was edited by NoLa on August 23, 2004 at 07:58 PM.]

thanks for the clarification. I feel a little better now

RyJ... I think your comparison of cigars and wine was perfect. Likewise, there are some wines that are best consumed now and others that will get better if you store the bottle for some time. Too bad, as you said, that we can't tell with cigars as well as with wines.
Thanks all for your replies... I got more from this post than I expected.

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"There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar."
-- Prince Sined Yar Maharg

tspo, I can make you feel even better by admitting that alot of my least favorite NC cigars became prized JUST because I aged them and are still good today. I guess my criticism was that the cigars I liked from day one and I really wanted to like even more as time went by often let me down. A Fuente 858 for example is great right out of the box but after 2-3 years just lacks personality. (to me) Again, the key to a large collection is vigilance; and remember, I stopped smoking them at a post boom time when really good tobacco was starting to become the norm again and people were blending in alot more ligero tobacco and I missed all of that, so really, what the hell do I know anyway. I am just too far down the Cuban cigar path to change.

KinnickKinnick

I bet if I gave you a hemingway or gurkha legend, I could drag you back to the dark side of the force.

That might be a lot harder than you think!

While this is not true for everyone, once you have smoked an H. Upmann Mag 46, a Bolivar Belicosos Finos or a Cohiba Robusto it is very difficult IMO to ever live without CC's.

That is not to say that NC's are bad. In fact, I smoke an equal mix of both, but once you have had a really good cuban it is very difficult to ever give up CC's and go back to smoking NC's exclusively.

There is nothing like the toe curling power, complexity and sheer delight that one of these cigars gives you.

thats not what I meant Voodoo. Nola just said that he no longer smokes nc's. I was just tempting him although the nc's I just mentioned above are very good, they don't compare IMO to the cubans I have.

thats not what I meant Voodoo.

thats not what I meant Voodoo.

[This message was edited by tpso320 on August 24, 2004 at 02:26 AM.]

any comment Nola?

No prob, it just sounded like something definitive.

well I truly believe that in general terms cuban cigars do improve with age.

And I dont mean 6 months but 5 years and upwards.

On the other hand I never had a 30 year plus old cigar that was good or even great.

TPSO, don't get me wrong, I still have a humidor filled with NC's, I just don't smoke them that often. My oldest cigars are the last two Don Carlos Robustos left from a box I bought in 1995.
Believe me, I hope that they are still good after THAT much aging, lol. I have 2 boxes of Padron Anniver.Exclusivos, (one given to me as a gift from Orlando himself) a full box of a Siglo6 size Cuba Aliados (whatever they're called) two full boxes of Don Tomas Spec Edit 200, and some JR Remedios. And some ONYX toros (that reserve stuff). I ain't gonna throw any of them away by any means. I just quit spending any NEW money on them. That is totally dedicated to my new pimp, the cuban cigar.

KinnickKinnick