Leaving the whole "smoke 'em if you like 'em" out the equation..... A lot of the discussion on aging goes as follows:
--Smoke them young, they are good for a while (example: PSD4, RASS, etc) --After a few month you need to put them away for proper aging --Wait 3 to 5 years and they'll be outstanding.
So, my question is about that mysterious period between a few months months and 3 years. Are the cigar incrementally better at say 1.7 years? Is there a mid aging period where they have generally improved dramatically, but not at their full potential - like maybe a year?
I've read where 1 year is a 'minimum' for proper aging. So, I'm wondering if the additional 2-4 years just provides a slight increase in enhanced experience. Or, is the progression of enhancement linear?
Posts: 950 | Location: New Jack City | Registered: May 24, 2004
Great question. I am always looking for more information on aging. Ever seen the Bordeaux book Parker puts out? He does the update on vintner by year...If I have a Monte #2 from 2000 should I let it go another year or is it passing its prime now?
Posts: 148 | Location: Central New Jersey | Registered: March 01, 2005
Juuuuusssssttttt ssssmmmmmooookkkkkeeeee yyyooooouuuuurrrr ccciiiiggggaaarrrrssss!!!! This ISN'T rocket science, cigars are NOT all derived from one big vat and are, instead, individually rolled and so there is going to be variations in every cigar, and you can't make ANY generalizations. Who knows? Maybe you DON'T LIKE what a cigar tastes like in 5 years, then you blew it! Who knows? Maybe you won't even be smoking cigars in 5 years, then you blew it!
Cigars evolve. No doubt. But it's just a cigar, no matter how exhorbitant the price.
___________________ Santa Cabilla...patron saint of Quericæstan. VIVE COULTER (not Ann)! VIVE CPD! Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go...(Oscar Wilde)
Posts: 10302 | Location: Avenida de las Nalgas, Quericæstan | Registered: May 02, 2002
In general larger ring gauged cigars need a lot more age than cigars 42 ring and below. The reasons being that the thicker cigars take a lot longer for the filler, binder and wrapper to marry. Being there is a lot more filler in a robusto, cigars like the Part SD4 need a good 4-5 years to age properly.
Cigars like a Partagas Serie D 1 which has a 36 ring gauge are great after only a couple of years on them. I recently got a couple boxes of 03 SD1's and they are fantastic, every bit as good as my 98's.
Posts: 407 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 11, 2002
I posted about this in another thread called "science of cuban sick period"
...and...............? What is the basis of your experience? Upon what do you base your expertise? Do you smoke a lot of Cuban cigars? Do you collect? Have you done so over a considerable period of time so that you have some idea about what the issue entails? Have you been to Cuba, spoken to rollers or factory officials, or anyone else who might shed some light on this issue so that you can illuminate others?
___________________ Santa Cabilla...patron saint of Quericæstan. VIVE COULTER (not Ann)! VIVE CPD! Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go...(Oscar Wilde)
Posts: 10302 | Location: Avenida de las Nalgas, Quericæstan | Registered: May 02, 2002
Maybe you DON'T LIKE what a cigar tastes like in 5 years, then you blew it! Who knows? Maybe you won't even be smoking cigars in 5 years, then you blew it!
Cigars evolve. No doubt. But it's just a cigar, no matter how exhorbitant the price.
Originally posted by BinDerSmokDat: I posted about this in another thread called "science of cuban sick period" or something similar, if anyone wants to dig it up.
I had already read that but it didn't really answer my question. My question centered around how rate/curve of aging. If it's linear then each month the cigar gets equally better. If it's non-linear, then maybe the majority of aging process happens in the first year, and then marginal gains are acheived in the next two years. The answer would be helful for those that don't have 40 boxes on 3+ year aged CCs in the humidor. It makes a difference with purchasing too.
Posts: 950 | Location: New Jack City | Registered: May 24, 2004
Great question I think. Having only been into this for a couple years I cannot answer your question & agree with some previous posts to a point.
That being said the absolute best cigars I have ever smoked were prob boxed'98 or '99 & smoked in '03 &'04. Partagas Lusitania, Monte 2 were the smokes & I still have one of each. Have smoked a few Lusi's & M2's that were "03 & they did not compare IMO, & thought that P 898 Varn from '00 were better.
Just my experience.
Posts: 1346 | Location: Back in Cigar City | Registered: April 30, 2004
See? Cigars from 98 - 99 were rushed into production with newer, less experienced rollers, using tobacco that, a year beforehand, would likely have been rejected for one reason or another because the industry was trying to accommodate a huge demand and it took them that long to react...so traditional wisdom is that, when you see cigars around from 97, 98, 99, there's a reason...they've been picked over and passed upon by those who bought others instead, and so on. There ARE gems from those years, no doubt, but they were all snatched up because that was a time where supply was catching up and there were cigars on the shelves under brands that had not been seen in a while made in sizes that were just not available in 94, 95, and 96. Go figure.
___________________ Santa Cabilla...patron saint of Quericæstan. VIVE COULTER (not Ann)! VIVE CPD! Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go...(Oscar Wilde)
Posts: 10302 | Location: Avenida de las Nalgas, Quericæstan | Registered: May 02, 2002
Originally posted by BinDerSmokDat: I posted about this in another thread called "science of cuban sick period" or something similar, if anyone wants to dig it up.
I had already read that but it didn't really answer my question. My question centered around how rate/curve of aging. If it's linear then each month the cigar gets equally better. If it's non-linear, then maybe the majority of aging process happens in the first year, and then marginal gains are acheived in the next two years. The answer would be helful for those that don't have 40 boxes on 3+ year aged CCs in the humidor. It makes a difference with purchasing too.
Economist?
Xavier
Posts: 664 | Location: Mexico City | Registered: March 11, 2004
In that, the first few years, imo, not much happens, at least usually nothing positive.
At some point, a few years, they do start to improve in a somewhat linear fashion, although, less than 3 months or + between sampling from a box, may reveal little improvement.
There is no set time, finding cigars made in different years, different brands and even different vitolas within a brand, march to their own beat.
One thihng I do know, "I just got it and I'll let it age 3 months" is somewhat humurous.
---------Why smoke good cigars when there are great cigars----------
The thing is you never know. The nice thing about buying Cigars or even picking one up out of the box is it is a bit of a mystery. It`s not like buying Marbourgh cigaretts or White Owl cigars. One box may age well another may not. I only smoke one or two a week so i just keep a few boxes around and rotate what i smoke. As the boxes get low i take the last few and put them in a 160 count wood humi with various singles extr. This system lets me sample a cigar from each box every couple months or so for about two and a half years then i save the last few to sample a few years down the road. Sometimes they are better than i remember sometimes not. I feel your mood, drink the weather ecxtr. can all effect the expeirence so even then the results are a bit less conclusive. Perhaps you should ask the Mythbusters maybe they can do a show. I also believe your mind has an effect. I have a buddy who is caught up in the ageing dark wrapper thing. If he sees a dark wrapper or knows the cigar is old his mind predetermines it`s good. Personaly i can never tell until i light something weather i`m gunna like it.
Posts: 531 | Location: N.J. usa | Registered: December 27, 2003
Also some boxes do seem to go from good to bad and back again but that could just be variation in the box. I realy don`t smoke enough to come up with any conclusive results Other than i haven`t had any boxes go bad and not recover. Just a bad stick or two for the most part. Not realy bad but not up to par with the rest of the box.
Posts: 531 | Location: N.J. usa | Registered: December 27, 2003
As RyJ has tried to suggest, the question is unanswerable. There is no uniform standard for taste. Therefore there is no scientific way to measure taste. Since it can't be measured, it can't be graphed.
Posts: 4229 | Location: Virginia Beach, VA | Registered: July 18, 2002
So, that's what I was saying!! LOL! Thanks for condensing...
___________________ Santa Cabilla...patron saint of Quericæstan. VIVE COULTER (not Ann)! VIVE CPD! Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go...(Oscar Wilde)
Posts: 10302 | Location: Avenida de las Nalgas, Quericæstan | Registered: May 02, 2002
I posted about this in another thread called "science of cuban sick period"
...and...............? What is the basis of your experience? Upon what do you base your expertise? Do you smoke a lot of Cuban cigars? Do you collect? Have you done so over a considerable period of time so that you have some idea about what the issue entails? Have you been to Cuba, spoken to rollers or factory officials, or anyone else who might shed some light on this issue so that you can illuminate others?
Nope, I'm far from a Cuban expert. I was busy that day and just didn't have time to rehash what I had said in my previous post. I tackled the question from a scientific standpoint and suggested some reasons for the "sick period" phenomenon. I mentioned some of the chemistry that might be behind it. I believe it exists, but because taste is so subjective and people are less than methodical in recoridng their observations, I think many things unrelated to the sick period get attributed to it.
Example, maybe someone's palate is off that day, maybe the cigars were a little wetter or drier than the smoker usually prefers, maybe it was just an 'off' box. People without a lot of experience with Cubans might inncorrectly attribute these to the 'sick period.'
I also agree with Bohdank that storing anything for less than a year or so is really just acclimatizing or letting the cigars settle in to the conditions people prefer.
I have a lot of stuff that is 1-2 years old, moslty NC and I say it has "age" on it, but that is a misnomer to say it is aged. It's more like resting the smokes. I like my stuff at 65% and a few months at that humidity greatly improves most smokes, but anything less than a year is more like letting the blend settle in, not true aging.
