There are repeated questions on this, and to the extent the issue is not covered elsewhere with respect to labels, bands, stickers, box codes, and the threshold inquiries as to appearance, there are other issues to consider as well. I've posted about this before, but I can't find the criteria, so here's some stuff I, for one, look for.

Sure, you look at the box...are the labels, stamps and seals in the right place? Is the printing and stamping clean? Are the bands right? That's all aesthetics.

When it comes to substance, that's a lot more difficult, as there are few objective standards against which to judge, and it takes time seeing counterfeits and the real thing side by side to gain a sense of what is real and what is not. The proliferation of counterfeit cigars, and the vendors who sell them, works against us in the US who otherwise do not have regular access to cigar shops who carry the items. And there are many myths of what to look for.

First, there should be consistency in COLOR. Cigars are grouped not by what roller made them, but rather by color. All cigars made by all the rollers at any given time with a given blend at that time are put to rest in descaparate for a while...at least 30 days or so. Then, regardless of roller, they are dumped onto a huge table where one or two people sort the cigars according to 64 basic color categories, and within those colors, varying shades and types that fit into another 64 or so different varieties.

The cigars are then arranged in a box according to color (again...without regard to who rolled them)...with a darker shade to the left, going slightly lighter cigar by cigar to the right. Then the box is taken to another table where the cigars are removed in their particular order and bands are affixed...then the cigars are placed back into the boxes.

So, the first thing you should see is consistency in COLOR, slightly darker to the left, slightly lighter to the right. If the cigars are of varying color and shade, and don't seem to fit together, that is one of several criteria to consider as to whether the cigar is genuine from the factory.

Next, the cigars in a box should be similar in size. Granted, there are slight variations in length for the cigars, and in a dress box, you can tap the bottom so that the cigars are all flush on the foot and see slight differences in length that are apparent at the tip of the cigar. But if those differences are too great, that is a problem.

The foot should be clean. Often times in a box of suspect cigars, there are remnants of where the cigar was cut...the cut wasn't clean, or something like that...so if the foot is sloppy and there are bits and pieces sort of hanging, that could also be a sign of trouble (although not definitive in and of itself because many authentic Cubans have a bit of debris on the foot as well).

Next, the Cuban cigar should have what is termed the 'triple cap' which is not a triple cap at all, but rather an optical illusion. Basically, to finish off the cigar, the roller takes a teardrop piece of tobacco from the wrapper that was affixed, and with a spot of the vegetal glue used on the cigars, melds it in with the wrapper and winds it around a couple of times...then they trim it, and tuck it in, and to finish it off, take a little device that looks like a bullet shell, cut a round piece that acts as the finishing touch on the head...and voila...the cap. It looks like a couple/few concentric circles that might appear to be covers, but actually, it's just a piece of tobacco that was placed there to ensure that the cigar doesn't unravel when it is clipped. It is a hallmark of Cuban cigars. Mind you, since the majority of these counterfeits (or black market cigars) are made by rollers who have regular jobs in the factories, and were trained in their craft, even counterfeit cigars will have this attribute, so the presence of a 'triple cap' does NOT ensure authenticity. But it is one criterion.

Next, I look for parity in the bands. The bands should be right on and level from cigar to cigar. Many times, there is a rush to production for counterfeits. The rollers do not have the time, space or luxury of allowing the cigars to settle after they roll them, or the air conditioning to allow them to sit and settle as they do in the factories (in descaparate). Cigars settle and the binder and wrapper shrink down a bit and this shrinkage can cause problems if the cigar is overfilled to begin with (and that was a problem with the industry from about 1997, until about 2000, because technique on all the new rollers put on line to increase production was not fully developed and more and more less experienced rollers were making cigars that had draw problems). But insofar as judging if a cigar is a counterfeit or not, when the roller making the cigars doesn't allow the cigar to settle before boxing, and puts the bands on tight before sending them out with the next jinetero to sell in the street, once the cigars settle, the bands loosen up. So, when you see a box of cigars where the bands are loose on the cigars, or are uneven, of if they slip up and down, that is a sign that there is a problem and that the cigars were not of regular production. This is one of the tell tale signs I see all the time in Mexico...the bands are all over the place.

The bands should be firmly affixed, and even from cigar to cigar.

Feel is also an important factor. You can touch the cigars and feel that, many times, the counterfeit cigars feel 'lumpy' or even 'squishy' up and down the length. Not a good sign. Again, this takes experience to get a sense of this. But if there are lumpy spots, or the cigars feel too squishy or, to the other extreme, too hard, then that is a problem. Mind you, however, many cigars coming out of descaprate might FEEL hard to the touch but, in fact, they are fine. Again...it takes experience handling these cigars to get a sense of this.

Sometimes, in the regular production cigars (especially when it comes to dress boxes), the cigars are 'box pressed'. The process entails squishing the round cigars into the rectangular box, and so the cigars form accordingly. In the process, there is also a bit of 'give and take' from cigar to cigar, so it may appear as if some cigars are bigger than others, and some are smaller. That may appear to be the case, but they did not start that way. The odd appearance is a product of the box pressing. [Note: there is a box press from some cigars outside of Cuba, and that is part of the very formation of the cigar...and that's not the same thing. Box press in the Cuban industry happens as described above...and is preferred by some aficionados.]

I also smell the cigars in the box to check for 'off' aromas, like ammonia, or something else out of the ordinary...a grassiness, mold, mildew, something like that.

When I have the luxury to do so, I also flip the box over and take a look at the feet of the cigars side by side; or, I will take one or two out and see how they are.

Well, I hope some of this is helpful. By no means is this list exhaustive of the things one might check when looking for counterfeit cigars, or to find out if one box is better than another, but it is certainly a lot more in depth than seeing if the labels, stickers, stamps, and codes are in the right place. Once again, that sort of stuff is readily available to anyone on the black market.
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© all rights reserved!! LOL!

Excellent!!! Alhough this is Basic 101 stuff, I look forward to additional information on how to detect counterfeits. Condense all the info and it would make a great 'sticky' post.

Nice post, RyJ.......or is this a counterfeit post?

All very good points.

Also scratches in the glass top box are usually a give-a-way!

The first and best recommendation is to get a reputable source from a knowledgeable cigar smoker.

That advice PRESUPPOSES that the person you understand to be "knowldgeable" is, in fact, knowledgeable. It's not sufficient for one to claim one's own proficiency, as is the case much of the time. People listen to and follow others in many cases blindly. Again...couple the proliferation of entities that engage in the trade of counterfeits (and they're all over the place) with an extremely ignorant, unsuspecting and, for the most part, gullible, clientele who really are ill-equipped to figure out what is what, and it's a recipe for people to be taken advantage of. And we constantly are, defending our source to the last ounce of our strength!

Asking someone else whom you think to be knowledgeable about a source who may or many not have some scam going is NOT going to help you judge if a cigar is counterfeit or not.

What I posted about here concerns TOOLS so that YOU can make YOUR OWN analysis. Not an exhaustive list, but for those unequipped and who lack significant, and I mean VERY significant, exposure to Cuban cigars, these are some important guidelines worth bring to bear. But if your source is beyond reproach, and you already know all this stuff and you don't really care...then feel free to disregard any and all of it! And enjoy your cigar.

Nice post. I'd like to mention, as someone who primarily smokes cubans, that the Romeo y Julieta brand of Cubans tends to do a very shoddy job of labeling. This means that the real ones may have imperfect bands and those bands may also be not perfectly glued. The ends may not line up perfectly on the band. This goes from the Churchill all the way down to the petit corona. Cohiba and Partagas on the other hand always look perfect. Montecristo are not as bad as Romeo y Julieta but not as good as Cohiba or Partagas. These are generalizations but if you're serious about figuring this out and can't smell the difference, this info could help. I know it has helped me.

Monte...remember that it's not like there's a Romeo y Julieta factory that makes only the RyJ line. These cigars are made in all the factories alongside all the brands. So the person putting on the RyJ bands is the same person putting on the Bolivar bands, or the Cohiba bands. Same person. Same place.

The ends of the bands should line up perfectly, and if they do not, that is not a sign that there is shoddy workmanship...for if that were so, it would be prevalent in all brands and lines. It is more of a sign of black marketing.

Lesson learned...problems with bands or packaging are NOT brand specific. The industry is such that all the factories make all the brands with the same materials in the same blend, so you could have a RyJ Churchill being rolled in the La Corona factory at the same time it is being rolled at the Upmann factory, at the same time it is being rolled at the Partagas factory, and the bands and the packaging and the cigar and the technique used to make it and the blend should all be the same. The people who put the bands on are good at what they do, and it's all they do, day after day. There are size guidelines for where, and while it may be possible that there are problems here or there with a band, the problems are very rare with factory production cigars.

This is wonderful information Bob.
IMHO to many people say know your source when they really don’t know what they are smoking. This is why I travel to an LCDH from time to time to make sure I know what to expect out of a cigar. Sure I am just a novice but why go at it blind.

If you don't know your source, then what do you know?

quote:

Originally posted by TheViper:
If you don't know your source, then what do you know?

Cigars...give it a try.

To know your source is OK, you first have to know your cigars. So, the apple and the cart thing...

There's no substitute for seeing, feeling, smelling, sensing, oogling over, boxes of cigars. Once you do, and many of us have been fortunate enough to do so, then you can tell more easily what is good and what is bunk. And that certainly cannot be ascertained by looking at a photograph of the exterior of a box. No friggin way.

Cigars...give it a try.[/QUOTE]



To quote RyJ from another post, don't get your panties in a bunch, LOL. Nobody is questioning your expertise, after all we are all experts here, aren't we? Certainly RyJ is correct that direct inspection is the preferred method but obviously not if you are in the US. Precluding that, a reputable vendor suits me just fine.

Nice work Bob!

Anyway to tell if your Swisher Sweets are fakes???

quote:

Originally posted by Fyrmanbob:
Anyway to tell if your Swisher Sweets are fakes???

If the tip has an off taste of ammonia rather than the sugary sweetness of an authentic swisher, than you probably have a fake.

Actually...if it's a Swisher Sweet and it tastes GOOD...it's a counterfeit.

I was pleasently suprised to find that all of my high-end Swishers had tight bands that all lined up.

Right on man!

I had one vendor advise that they ship without bands. Does this assume that it's absolutely fake and run for the hills?

not so common on internet purchases but a sure sign somebody bought cigars "at the beach"...habanos chevron and seal are not affixed but just tucked in the box.have never seen this with cigars from an lcdh but quite common with fakes.

a very helpful thread for some...thank you ryj.

derrek