The whole Piedra vs Opus X thing is a total load of crap. Last time I checked a JLP wasn’t going for $20+. When did I say all Cuban cigars are better than any NC? All I said was, there hasn't been a 95 point scoring Cuban in years and I did not agree with the CAO getting the same score as a Cuban RyJ Churchill, one of my favorite cigars that I have boxes of experiences with. Bottom line: at the same price range the Cubans beat the NCs every time.

My $.02 is that if I like it then I smoke it, no matter what it is...If I like it a lot then I purchase a box, CC or NC it doesn't matter...I don't box purchase based on ratings or pedigree...

quote:

Originally posted by YoungHerfer:
The 3rd point I would like to make, and then I'll get off my soap box, is that traditionally the ageing of NC's has not been done

There is a good reason why NC's are not aged.

NC's do not improve with age. You can mellow them and get some of the harshness out, but that's about the extent they benefit from sitting in the humi.

I'll take the Piedra.

The cost is irrelevant.

Several years ago I emailed into CA the suggestion, one of many who did I would imagine, that they include both factory and date codes in their cuban cigar ratings. Surprisingly, and happily, one day in the mail to me from CA came a nice little six pack of cigars. For awhile they did use factory codes on many reviews and have since seemed to go more with only dates. I still say all of the information is the best information.

At any rate it seems to me that as time goes by most every cuban cigar of note sooner or later seems to hit their rating list with a good (or better) rating.

That either says something quite positive about cuban cigars or something about a magazine beholdent to cigar manufacturers.

GO CELTICS! What a year for New England sports fans with 3 teams making the final in their sport!!!!!!

I see that this is a topic that many feel strongly about and Dusko, I'm sorry if took what you said out of context, but I was only using the Opus vs. JLP as an example, and apparently it was not a very good one. I like what perfectform said about if he likes it, then he smokes it, and I guess this is more of the side that I take, while my favorite cigar is a CC, there are times that I opt for a NC over a CC (not that often though).

This is what I take from herfer's comments, and I agree 100%.

There are too many people out there that think just because a cigar is cuban, makes it better than all other cigars. Simple as that. Part of that may be due to the fact that cubans are not available to all, adding an elitist factor. Then there is the hype. These, in fact, have nothing to do with taste or quality of the cigar. It is simply a state of mind which can easily affect ones perception of that cuban cigar.
Bottom line, there are many good NCs out there, and they should be put into the same playing field as CC with the knowledge that they originate from a different part of the world and have differing characterisics. If you prefer Cuban characteristics, that's awesome. But the next guy may prefer a certain Nicaraguan puro. To each his own.

As to CA ratings, I take them with a grain of salt, and make my own decisions. I actually put more stock into individual ratings from these forums.

Very well said JB.

Oh, you CA forum conspiracy theorists...just when I think you guys have noticed how some of our largest advertisers receive some of the lowest scores (and inversely, the highest scores by brands that don't even advertise) someone has to start in with the whole "bought ratings" philospohy. (Sigh) Part and parcel I suppose, and I understand cynical knee-jerk reactions, but if the ratings were cooked, my position would be irrelevant. Cigar Aficionado pays me full time to go out and buy cigars, costing the company anywhere from $4,000-$6,000 per tasting in cigars alone. This expense plus my salary plus all the invested time of orchestrating a blind review and having the panel smoke the cigars analytically, critically, etc...What would be the point of all this if ratings were fixed? The operation would amount to a lot of wasted money for a charade that no one even sees. The Cubans, for example, did very well this issue topping more than one of our categories. I ask the conspiracy theorists: Which one of our advertisers are we pandering to when we rate Cubans well?

After viewing the videos on tastings (part 1 &2) and reading your comment I think I understand more about the rating process and possibly how it works.

I guess one thing that only you would know is the proportion of CC to NC per issue. If there were fewer of one than the other of course that would explain why we are always shocked by some of the results. Maybe making sure there are an equal balance of CCs vs NCs might work.

And of course everyone is always looking for their favs in the tastings.

Thanks for all the info, Gregory. Now I appreciate the time and effort that goes into this part of the magazine. I will keep that in mind when I go through them next time.

CM

The ratio is usually anywhere from 12 to 16 Cubans per issue of 75 to 80 cigars total. We have established that, for the US market, this proportion approximates the percentage of Cubans in the average American smoker's humidor. Considering that many American cigar smokers have never even tried a Cuban cigar, we find this number to be a fair balance. Of course, you'll have plenty of Americans who have calibrated their palates to smoke only Cuban Cigars, but we do not find that this is the norm. Unlike the rest of the world, the US has a far more diverse cigar-smoking landscape—a result, no doubt, of the embargo. But what has come out of the embargo are Nicaraguan, Honduran and Dominican cigars that are truly world class.

quote:

Originally posted by Boknows:
I just received the latest issue, with Kevin Costner and his uncut belicoso.

It seems like Greg went mad on the Cuban lanceros for the blind tasting section! Good job Mr. Mottola.

You mean the Lonsdales...funny thing about that observation, BoKnows. Not as many people notice a preponderance of Dominican or Nicaraguan cigars in a given tasting section...they focus more on the brands, but when the brands are Cuban, the country seems to get more attention and I attribute this to a general opinion about Cuban cigars, specifically that they are often times regarded as one single brand. People don't normally say "I like Dominicans, I like Nicaraguans..." They'll more often say "I like OPusX, I like Padron, and I like Cubans..." NOT "Padron, Joya de Nicaragua, Diplomatics, Cohiba, etc..." And I suppose this is what Habanos wants seeing how it is all one big government-run operation anyway. In this respect, their marketing has worked.

quote:

Originally posted by Gregory Mottola:
...But what has come out of the embargo are Nicaraguan, Honduran and Dominican cigars that are truly world class.

But would you agree that, generally, NC cigars (unless you really go super-premium) are more unidimentional than CCs (i.e. the taste remains about the same throughout the cigar in an NCC, whereas CCs quite often evolve quite a bit while you smoke)?

Flashman, If you give me your definition of Super Premium, I might be able to better answer the question. There is a lot of high-quality Nicaraguan tobacco available that is relatively inexpensive and will often times out perform Cuban vitolas of the same size in terms of complexity, resonance and combustion. I remember one time a Swiss dealer of Cuban cigars I know came to NYC and we went out and sampled from Davidoff's humidor and she was shocked at the flavors she was tasting from some Dominican cigars...shocked in a good way. It was a totally different experience for her because, like most of Europe, she only smokes Cubans. Of course, some of those used to Cuban tobacco may just as well reject those flavors for the very same reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by Gregory Mottola:
Flashman, If you give me your definition of Super Premium, I might be able to better answer the question.

I was refering to expensive -- but quality sticks -- such as Padron 64 and 26, Opus X, Ashton VSG and the likes.

quote:

Originally posted by flashman:

quote:

Originally posted by Gregory Mottola:
Flashman, If you give me your definition of Super Premium, I might be able to better answer the question.

I was refering to expensive -- but quality sticks -- such as Padron 64 and 26, Opus X, Ashton VSG and the likes.

All great examples of world-class cigars.

For me what it comes down to is the fact that Cuban cigars generally receive the highest ratings. I would still like to see separate ratings for Cubans and non-Cubans. There are plenty of vintage cigars to include in these ratings based on notes from the CA staff and not just the 75+ cigars smoked for each issue.

quote:

Originally posted by chrisguinther:
For me what it comes down to is the fact that Cuban cigars generally receive the highest ratings. I would still like to see separate ratings for Cubans and non-Cubans. There are plenty of vintage cigars to include in these ratings based on notes from the CA staff and not just the 75+ cigars smoked for each issue.

Segregate the Cubans from the rest of the tastings? Why?

quote:

Originally posted by Gregory Mottola:
Not as many people notice a preponderance of Dominican or Nicaraguan cigars in a given tasting section...they focus more on the brands, but when the brands are Cuban, the country seems to get more attention and I attribute this to a general opinion about Cuban cigars, specifically that they are often times regarded as one single brand. People don't normally say "I like Dominicans, I like Nicaraguans..." They'll more often say "I like OPusX, I like Padron, and I like Cubans..." NOT "Padron, Joya de Nicaragua, Diplomatics, Cohiba, etc..." And I suppose this is what Habanos wants seeing how it is all one big government-run operation anyway. In this respect, their marketing has worked.

Not just efforts of the Cuban marketing, but also the embargo and forums like this. That's why we have an NC and a CC forum right? Instead of DC, N(icaraguan)C, HC, and CC.

Mr. Mottola, I have a question for you sir. Whenever the smokes are picked out, and you have placed the special bands on them, do you mix those in with CC's, or is a seperate tasting of cigars done for CC's? I am not putting in question your rating system or anything, I was just wondering for my own personal education. Thanks in advance.